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| Motivation |
 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: what do you think of Islam ? |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: UAE- Dubai
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Hi
I just thought of knowing what do u guys think of islam ( the religion ) ?
what have u heard about it ?
waiting for ur answers  |
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| coltbishop |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 33
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| Just like any religion: antiquated. I find that most religions are a hinderance on society, Islam is no exception. |
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| Motivation |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: UAE- Dubai
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| coltbishop wrote: |
| Just like any religion: antiquated. I find that most religions are a hinderance on society, Islam is no exception. |
and why do u think of that ? |
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Pennsylvania
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I have a real problem with the intolerance of Muslims toward any other religions. If a Muslim comes to a Western country, he will be able to practice his religion freely, and will have all the rights of citizenship. In countries where Islam is very dominant, they do not allow freedom of religion. If they do tolerate other religions, they still treat them as second class citizens without full rights of citizenship.
The Muslim policy of killing apostates is also a violation of human rights in my view. Any person should be free to choose their religion, even those who are now Muslims. |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 765
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Bravo!
I was wondering how soon it would take for a thread like this, supposed to be discussing Islam, to sidetrack into discussing Muslims instead – i.e. a thread supposed to be discussing religion sidetracking into discussing people instead.
| Motivation wrote: |
| islam ( the religion ) |
NOT
| Quote: |
| muslims (the people ) |
It took only three replies.
Well done, well done!
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Pennsylvania
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| JaneBennet wrote: |
Bravo!
I was wondering how soon it would take for a thread like this, supposed to be discussing Islam, to sidetrack into discussing Muslims instead – i.e. a thread supposed to be discussing religion sidetracking into discussing people instead.
| Motivation wrote: |
| islam ( the religion ) |
NOT
| Quote: |
| muslims (the people ) |
It took only three replies.
Well done, well done! |
Well, Jane, I don't see how you separate Islam from Muslims. Islam is whatever Muslims think it is. You can only judge the religion by the way its adherents behave. |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but what do you think of, say, the Qur’ān, fasting during Ramadan, Friday prayers, pilgrimage to Mecca, etc? These would be topics about Islam (the religion).
On the other hand, your tirade against Muslims is not really about religion – more about politics instead.
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
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(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
Fact of the day: Homotopy |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 765
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And furthermore
| what Harold14370 wrote: |
| In countries where Islam is very dominant, they do not allow freedom of religion. |
is not quite true. Some Muslim countries may be more strict than others, but not all of them are intolerant. Take Malaysia, for example. Although Islam is the official religion, the country is nevertheless quite tolerant of other religions. How many Westerners do you know who have got into trouble in Malaysia over religious things?
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
Proves its worth by fighting back.
(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
Fact of the day: Homotopy |
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
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| JaneBennet wrote: |
Yes, but what do you think of, say, the Qur’ān, fasting during Ramadan, Friday prayers, pilgrimage to Mecca, etc? These would be topics about Islam (the religion).
On the other hand, your tirade against Muslims is not really about religion – more about politics instead. |
Jane, Motivation asked what we think. I stated what I think. I am not interested in their prayer customs or that sort of thing. I am interested in human rights and how Islam and Muslims interface with the rest of the world.
I could easily quote the Quran or other Muslim scriptures to support exactly what I stated before about Muslims. That would not necessarily be accurate though. For example, the Bible has passages that could be used to justify slavery. That does not mean Christianity supports slavery, at least the modern version of Christianity.
PS. A country with an official religion does not meet my definition of a country with freedom of religion. |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 765
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Well, if you have no comments on Islamic practices and the religion itself, then maybe you could have saved what comments you do have for another (more political) thread instead?
Sorry, but your post in this thread came across to me as abrupt as McCormick’s comments in this thread – in which he joined a thread on algebra problems by talking about algebra-teaching methods. Don’t you see? William’s remarks might have been appropriate in the Education section, but were totally out of place in that thread – so, likewise, I felt that your post was more about Islamic politics than the religion itself (which is what I thought Motivation wanted to discuss here). 
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
Proves its worth by fighting back.
(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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No, Jane. We are discussing Islam. It's just an unpleasant fact of Islam you would rather ignore. It is part of their faith, or at least many Muslims believe it to be so, to establish a national religion. It's called Sharia law.
By the way, here are a couple of quotes from the Wikipedia article Religious freedom in Malaysia
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| The Constitution of Malaysia provides for limited freedom of religion, notably placing control upon the 'propagation' of religion other than Islam to Muslims |
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| Negeri Sembilan is the only state which permits conversion. A convert must first apply to the Syariah Court for a declaration that he or she is no longer a Muslim; the convert will then be counseled for about a year by a Mufti. If, after this period, the convert still wants to convert, the judge may permit the application. This process is unique to the state; no other state allows Muslims to officially convert. |
| Quote: |
| Massosai was incarcerated for six months in an Islamic re-education camp because of her attempts to renounce Islam in favor of the Hindu religion.[16] Revathi was denied the guardianship of her new born baby and was not allowed to meet her Hindu husband. |
This is your example of religious tolerance. |
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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| JaneBennet wrote: |
is not quite true. Some Muslim countries may be more strict than others, but not all of them are intolerant. Take Malaysia, for example. Although Islam is the official religion, the country is nevertheless quite tolerant of other religions. How many Westerners do you know who have got into trouble in Malaysia over religious things? |
Furthermore, the past tells quite a different story. There were periods of history where the Islamic countries were the places of tolerance and the Christian countries were the ones that were intolerant. Furthermore, it is rather funny how the west judges other societies for the things they have stopped doing themselves only recently. What is a hundred years in the context of history?
Nevertheless, I do give thanks that Islam is not bigger than it is because when I see the accomplishments of women artists (musics, film, writing, etc...) in western society I know full well that these accomplishments would not be tolerated in most Islamic societies. So although there is cause for a little historical perspective, there is also cause for fear and for thanksgiving.
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| coltbishop |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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| Motivation wrote: |
| coltbishop wrote: |
| Just like any religion: antiquated. I find that most religions are a hinderance on society, Islam is no exception. |
and why do u think of that ? |
Well, first it's quite obvious human have made a point to rely on god to address the unexplainable. This has in turn developed divisive schisms and bloody conflicts. Islam is just another interpretation of human existence and human history that doesn't coincide with actual scientific data. Therefore, Islam is antiquated and without merit; it's basically as fully of fairytales as any other religion.
R. Dawkins does a superb job of explaining the intricate argument behind this logic. Check out his books or anything by C. Hitchens or S. Harris. |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Harold:
If question was “what do you think of Christianity (the religion)” and someone replied with “I have a real problem with the medieval Inquisition whereby innocent women were burnt as witches” and “it was part of their faith, or at least many Christians believed it to be so, to exterminate heretics”, wouldn’t that be out of place as well? That would have been Christianity (history) rather than Christianity (the religion).
This is a thread about Islam (the religion), started in the Religion section. If we want to discuss Islamic politics, I suggest we continue here.
BTW, you did a good research on Malaysia. I admit there were a few things about that country I didn’t know about. 
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A problem worthy of attack
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Did You Know?
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| JaneBennet wrote: |
Harold:
If question was “what do you think of Christianity (the religion)” and someone replied with “I have a real problem with the medieval Inquisition whereby innocent women were burnt as witches” and “it was part of their faith, or at least many Christians believed it to be so, to exterminate heretics”, wouldn’t that be out of place as well? That would have been Christianity (history) rather than Christianity (the religion).
This is a thread about Islam (the religion), started in the Religion section. If we want to discuss Islamic politics, I suggest we continue here.
BTW, you did a good research on Malaysia. I admit there were a few things about that country I didn’t know about. |
That's a poor example considering Islam is intolerant these days while your example talks about Christianitys past.
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