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| Motivation |
 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: tiny life on other planets |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: UAE- Dubai
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what's with people wanting to find life on other planets and i even wish if they were looking for live beings like us. No instead they're lookeing for tiny tiny creatures i mean what are the benifits of finding these creatures
i know it's going to be a great achievement for man kind but then what ?some peaple told me that they are doing this in hope to fine an alternative planet for us to live on after earth vanishes
is that true ?
and if it was how are they going to create the right environment on a whole planet that is suitable for us to live in ? ( Eath is very unique ) |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4804
Location: Scotland
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While it would be preferable/more interesting/of greater significance to find large, intelligent lifeforms, we know that is unlikely to happen within the bounds of the solar system. There are no Martians hiding in the bottom of the Olympus Mons caldera.
So we are left looking for other lifeforms that might exist on Mars, or other bodies in the Solar System. At present all of our biological understanding is based upon a single kind of life. We believe that all life on Earth evolved from an original, single common ancestor.
What were the chances that original ancestor would appear? Did it need to have the characteristics it did - twenty amino acids, DNA with four specific nucleotides, etc. How commonplace is life in the Universe?
Questions like these can be answered, at least in part, by the discovery of any other lifeform that does not share our common ancestor. Also, keep in mind that microscopic lifeforms are more important to ecosystems than macro forms such as ourselves. There are more microbial cells in your body than there are your own cells.
Edited to correct double negative, not unlikely.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane.
Last edited by Ophiolite on Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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<<<Darn, Ophiolite beat me as second post! Oh well !!>>>
Have you heard of SETI ? We are looking for life like us, its just that given the complexities of social structures and our technology limits, this may be long in happening. In the mean time lets look for what life we can. If we find life it gives us good reason to believe that it is entirely possible for life to exist elsewhere in the Universe and in possibly more complex forms.
The problems with SETI become more evident as our society's entertainment technologies progress. Back in the 60's it used to be thought that more advanced societies used more powerful transceivers than we had and that we could possibly tune in on an alien equivalent to "I Love Lucy"
As it turns out, at least in our society, advances to technology switched from energy inefficient analog broadcasts to the higher energy efficiency and higher-resolutions made possible by digital signals, thus we have less "noise" leaving the atmosphere into space.
On top of this laws were put in place to ensure maximum usage of the frequency ranges we use for broadcasting, further limiting the amount of noise leaving our atmosphere.
It is very possible that advanced societies are using similar or more advanced technologies that send less signals away from their home planet, unless they are intentionally sending a message in our direction, and the probability factor goes even lower from here.
If you think about it, the only signals we sent into space were during a very very short time frame in our history, about 90 yrs at the most. I believe the most powerful of which was A 100 kilowatt transmitter and antenna complex that was built at Zeesen, near Berlin in 1933 by the Nazis to transmit propaganda around the world. So, the first thing an alien might think of us is of a really racist and genocidal race.
So basically, It is very unlikely we find intelligent life similar to us in the near future, and while that doesn't mean we stop trying we also should not divert attention from first finding microbial life as well.
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“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain |
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| BumFluff |
| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Canada
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Finding microscopic life anywhere in the Universe other than Earth is a huge leap forward toward finding sentient life on the level of humanity elsewhere in the universe. One step at a time.
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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Isotope
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2587
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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don't denigrate that tiny tiny life : the earth is only habitable for us humans thanks to that tiny tiny life
so if anyone has the temerity to ask the question "what have bacteria ever done for us ?", the answer is "a lot"
_________________
if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| Motivation |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: UAE- Dubai
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i don't think any of u knew what i meant
i know that finding microscopic life is a huge step for science and it's going to benifit us in many ways...... but
Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets
i'm telling u it's not going to work !
we lived on earth and we're going to die with it |
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| Bunbury |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 850
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I'm inclined to agree with you. The range of environments that humans could live in without taking protective measures that would make life intolerable is surely quite limited.
| Quote: |
| Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on |
Earth actually provides many different environments that humans have managed to adapt to, but even on Earth it seems we are on a knife edge.
Living at high elevations above sea level, for instance, we are cautioned never to go outside without wearing sunscreen, and wide brim hats and long sleeves are recommended. This is to avoid skin cancer which has a higher prevalence in high elevation communities. If a planet that seemed hospitable turned out to have just slightly higher levels of UV radiation it might be lethal to humans. There must be many other minor deviations from "Earth-norm" that would at first seem innocuous, but on examination prove to be deadly.
What are the chances of finding a planet that meets all of our requirements within a very limited range of tolerance? Vanishingly small I'd guess.
So I'm rooting for the bugs. If we find an organism, any organism, anywhere else in the Solar System it will be the biggest discovery in history. |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4804
Location: Scotland
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| Motivation wrote: |
| i don't think any of u knew what i meant |
Correct. you seemed to be questioning the value of finding microscopic life forms. thank you for clarifying your real meaning.
| Motivation wrote: |
| Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth |
As someone else (JaneBennet?) pointed out in another thread, perfect is an absolute. So your sentence doesn't make grammatical sense.
Moreover, I would challenge your description of it as perfect. It is an environment to which we are - not surprisingly - well adapted. Depending upon the long range goals of humanity I can think of many improvements that could be made to it, therefore it is clearly not perfect.
| Motivation wrote: |
and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets i'm telling u it's not going to work !
we lived on earth and we're going to die with it |
The motivation to search for other life forms has several sources: better understanding of our own origins, clarification of our place in the Universe, a desire to meet and greet aliens, a thirst for knowledge, etc. Only part of the motivation is to find other homes for mankind.
On what basis do you tell us 'it is not going to work'. This is the second time I have observed you commit the logical fallacy of Argument from Incredulity. Just because you doubt it has absolutelt no bearing on its possibility. Do you have any substantial reasons, backed up by evidence, to support your claim?
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1282
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| Motivation wrote: |
i don't think any of u knew what i meant
i know that finding microscopic life is a huge step for science and it's going to benifit us in many ways...... but
Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets
i'm telling u it's not going to work !
we lived on earth and we're going to die with it |
The Earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, cooled and the first microscopic life has existed from that point 3.5 to 3.8 billion years ago.
Anything resembling our current complex living forms started about 500 million years ago. Man and its ancestors have been around no more than three million years ago and whether from natural selection or some form of biological evolution, would never have existed here, as we know it, if those early forms were not around to change conditions on this planet.
Finding any form of life on other objects in our solar system, is an effort to understand our existence, not necessarily to terraform and eventually give mankind a place to move, for whatever reason. Its fun to talk about, but so far from practical and were just to far from any practical means to achieve.
Earths environment is still changing, just as it always has and the day may come when mankind will adapt or will die off, just as 99% of all species that have ever existed. BUT even with our simple intelligence and means to communicate our limits to survive, may allow our evolving into the changes, or preventing some catastrophic event.
Opinion; I see no reason why mankind's existence should end on earth, if we continue to search for answers. Throwing in the towel and assuming some dismal scenario for all society seems a bit premature. In 10,000 or a hundred thousand years, what builds from our basic 500 years of science should provide all we need to see that our existence was not in vain... |
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| Motivation |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: UAE- Dubai
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how old r u guys anyway
i like the way u give ur opinions u know very much ( god bless u )
but i still say that motivation has its limits
human can live on other planets but not as the meaning of leaving earth
we will die on earth just like we were created on it. |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4804
Location: Scotland
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I am old and Jackson is ancient. 
While I fully expect to die on the Earth, like Jackson I would be surprised and hugely disappointed if we did not venture out into the Universe. If we are one of many intelligent lifeforms then such a step will be like moving from the nursery to lower school. If we are the only intelligent lifeform then it is our duty to spread life around the galaxy at least.
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1282
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| Motivation wrote: |
how old r u guys anyway
i like the way u give ur opinions u know very much ( god bless u )
but i still say that motivation has its limits
human can live on other planets but not as the meaning of leaving earth
we will die on earth just like we were created on it. |
No, motivation is limited only by the society, people live in. Living, I assume, in Dubai is itself an good example. Your government is exploring new ideas, most countries cannot imagine much less practice.
With todays technology, no we could not live on another object (planet or moon) primarily because of immunity to bacteria/virus/germs, which certainly our systems could never adapt to or develop medication. We have enough problems handling this issue, here on earth. Not to mention differentials with gravity (mass of the new object) which our body is set for earths mass. Again, we are having problems as folks weight too much, developing problems. There are others, but think you get the point.
I can't, maybe won't, get into "were created on", since I believe we came into existence at the will of environmental conditions and evolved for the very same reasons. I have trouble when these conditions or the existence of mankind become an issue of other than a normal process, which I feel is prevalent in the universe.
In short, expand your horizon, plan for a long life and know that NOTHING
is impossible. As for my age, yes ancient would be correct to any generation starting, but its that experience, coming from what was to what is now, that gives me the hope for what could be... |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1412
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We used to rate much of Canada "inhospitable and infertile wasteland". That wasteland now "feeds the world" with wheat, beef, canola oil.
I tend to agree that humans won't be running around on other planets. Though if you loosen up the definition of "human" and create new kinds (like we did for new kinds of dry-land wheat) it is possible and certainly easier than making a whole planet come to us so to speak. Dogs can live in apartments and even ladies' handbags - the trick is to adapt the dog not the environment. People may exist in one form or another.
My interest in extraterrestrial life aims most specifically at a krill fishery in one of Jupiter's water-moons. If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious. I would like to have vacuum-frozen animal protein delivered in serious volume to Earth orbit, and dropped either as fertilizer or eaten as dietary supplement, since our terrestrial krill can sustainably feed just a few billions.
The future costs of hauling fertilizer from our ocean's depths and trucking and dispersing that on inland farms is perhaps greater than the cost of delivering this same product from space. Some day it may simply be more economical.
My core motive here is to enable greater billions of human population. A worthy cause don't you agree? |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1282
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Pong; I agree, this planet is far from over anything, population to managing resources. Also Canada is a good example for what can happen with just a little ingenuity and MOTIVATION. Africa, South America, Australia and most of Asia are just beginning to understand, their importance in the mix and will soon make their case...I sincerely believe.
As for human, there is an element in emotion, I hope we never lose. Mr. Spock, was an interesting character, but what makes us what we are is the emotion that drives us. Good or bad, right or wrong will have to develop, but to lose emotion would make all things important in our lives of no importance. Think this important... |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4804
Location: Scotland
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| Pong wrote: |
| If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious. |
Bad idea. The goal should be maximum biodiversity.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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