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cccscience
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject: the most exceptible theory of why the 9/11 bombings happened Reply with quote

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I as a teenagers believe deeply in the importance of friends.
I saw on t.v. that china was attempting an invasion of tibet. To me that invasion means they would start to work together and share resourses.
this sparked in my mind that the "terroist group" Al Quida are more like wise men then dystructive visionaries as they are always portrayed on news in american settlements.
I think the overly enraged group just gave up of attempting to trade what little they had with what vast amounts america has collected, I can picture them just becoming fed up at deciding that the buildings that control trading would have to dystroyed. the day would be remembered, this is most obviously to the eyes of innocents a symbol that the rest of the world is not going to sit around forgotten and left out of the buisness that is happening. mostly the countries that stay diseased or hungry or full of crime and poverty.
this is unexceptible conndictions for any group that fuctions with drugs and guns, therefor the sources must be manipulated to better accomindate for the rest of humanity as a whole and not just as little patches of successtion that form while the nieghboring, more nieve settlements sit in dismay and terror from disease crime and hatred.
its time this planet starts working together and caring, since the attack was more of a symbol to me then an attack on us i think that were to balme and america would be host to the last war on the face of earth for the rest of time.

cody j. hernandez
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Hanuka
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Who are you saying that bombed teh tradecenter then??

I dun get it, why people take the fall of rome for granted but can't
belive that some terrorists bombed some tall building?!

p.s. are you saying that this was the last act on war ever?
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Pong
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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It is just possible that Usama bin Ladin enjoys greater infamy than he really deserves - I mean takes undue credit as some kind of omnipotent mastermind - but we may as well get this straight from the horse's mouth, hey?



"But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."
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kojax
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Pong's point is a lot better than the OP.

The Arabic people plainly see that they're at our mercy, and they don't like being at anyone's mercy because they're a proud people. They're too backward and illiterate to be able to organize themselves into any kind of meaningful industry, but they still have a lot pride in themselves.

They're mad that we left them behind, instead of being mad that they didn't choose to advance with us.


cccscience wrote:
I as a teenagers believe deeply in the importance of friends.
I saw on t.v. that china was attempting an invasion of tibet. To me that invasion means they would start to work together and share resourses.
this sparked in my mind that the "terroist group" Al Quida are more like wise men then dystructive visionaries as they are always portrayed on news in american settlements.


The problem is that, if you give certain kinds of resources to a society that is too poorly structured to be able to make effective use of them, those resources are just going to be lost.

We try to send money to third world countries all the time, but the corrupt officials in their crumby governments just pocket the money and don't give much of it to the people.

Quote:

I think the overly enraged group just gave up of attempting to trade what little they had with what vast amounts america has collected, I can picture them just becoming fed up at deciding that the buildings that control trading would have to dystroyed. the day would be remembered, this is most obviously to the eyes of innocents a symbol that the rest of the world is not going to sit around forgotten and left out of the buisness that is happening. mostly the countries that stay diseased or hungry or full of crime and poverty.


So basically, they want us to wave our magic wand and fix everything. We could give them all the wealth we have today, and tomorrow most of them would just be poor again.

Most of the reason our society works so well is because the people in it are organized. How are we going to give that kind of organization to them? We have notions ingrained in our culture about things like how a police officer or judge or governor should behave. (Basically, we put limits on them)

Most third world countries' cultures don't have those same notions. Mostly their notions include the idea that powerful people should be allowed to do whatever they want, and so when those powerful people do awful things, nobody stops them.

If they want to be wealthy, they'll have to change their culture. If they want their culture to stay the same, then they'll just have to learn to live in poverty. You can't do the wrong thing and get the right result, even if your culture defines that wrong thing as right.
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icewendigo
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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1962 Operation Northwoods Join Chiefs of Staff plans for False Flag terrorism campaign against US civilans to sell war againt Cuba(plan not enacted)

1967, June 8: USS Liberty, 34 US servicemen killed by unmarked Israeli jetfighters and Israeli torpedo boat, fighters from US Carrier launched to assists are recalled by LBJ, the USS Liberty fails to sink and survivors tell the tale despite cover-up.

1997 NORAD and FEMA hold exercises in which terrorists crash highjacked airliners planes into buildings including World Trade Center


2000
- Pakistani ISI Director General Ahmad orders an aide to wire transfer about $100,000 to hijacker Atta.

- A secret military operation named Able Danger identifies four future 9/11 hijackers, Able Danger is shut down by superiors, its files are erased.

- PNAC Rebuilding Americas Defenses "change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbour".

- Oct. Operation Pentagon MASCAL, exercise simulating terrorists smashing a plane into the Pentagon


2001

JULY
- Osama Bin Laden receives treatment at the American hospital in Dubai

- FBI agents in Chicago and Minnesota are pulled off investigation into terrorist network

AUGUST
- US company Raytheon landed a 727 six times in a military base in New Mexico without any pilots on board. This was done to test equipment to allow ground control to take over the flying of a hijacked plane.

SEPTEMBER
SEPT 6-10 CIA front bank used to buy Put Options on AA UA Merryl

SEPT 8-9
Power down in South Tower from the 48th floor up (while engineers are seen going in and out)

SEPT 10
- Bin Laden is admitted to a military hospital in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, for kidney dialysis treatment. Pakistani military forces guard bin Laden (CBS).

- President Bush signs the go ahead to attack Afghanistan (according Newsweek)

SEPT 11
- Several NORAD exercises are held(Vigilant Guardian, etc) some include highjacked airlines.

- National Reconnaissance Office(NRO) hold evacuation exercise of plane crash into building scenario with skeleton CIA crew.

- Odigo(israeli) 2 employees get warning message about WTC attack 2 hours before crash

- 5 Israelis film the WTC crashes(later claim they were documenting the event) and heard cheering as the WTC collapse

- Israelis are arrested with explosives near George Washington Bridge

- Explosion in the WTC basement occurs moments before crash

- Before any WTC collapse, explosions in the basement/lobby of WTC7 trap Barry Jennings and Mike Hess in staircase after they left the empty OEM on the 8th floor.

- Cheney was briefed by military on regular basis about monitored incoming plane(Pentagon) (as stated by secretary of transportaion)
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kojax
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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I wonder if the Jews are easy to accuse because they're actually behind stuff a lot of the time. Certainly not all of them, but a small group within who knows that the people they screw with will only have two choices:

1) - Don't retaliate at all

2) - Retaliate against all the Jews, both those responsible and those who played no role whatsoever. (The second group being the larger of the two).


It's really hard to be surgical. It's too bad that, instead of the observer saying they saw "Jews" dancing when the WTC towers went down they couldn't say they saw specific people dancing, who happened to be of Jewish descent.

If we knew the specifics of who was behind certain things, then sought only those people out, then the Jewish nation as a whole would have a choice whether they wanted to harbor those refugees or turn them over, and we'd have something to judge the group by.
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Cccscience, all you are doing is making excuses for the terrorists. There are thousands of terrorist attacks by Muslims all over the world each year. China, India, Russia, Europe, Africa, America - all over the world before and after the 11/9 attacks, and usually by nationals of the country they attack.

To blame the US, although fashionable, is too simplistic. The responsibility lies with the Muslims in high and influential positions within the Islamic country's and community's to condemn it and stop it.
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evariste.galois
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Cat1981(England) wrote:


To blame the US, although fashionable, is too simplistic. The responsibility lies with the Muslims in high and influential positions within the Islamic country's and community's to condemn it and stop it.


i dont agree with your point. sure, everybody is responsible for its own actions and there is no excuse for murder BUT you also have to consider what sparked all of these events. nobody would ever consider to kill himself in a terrorist attack unless he is full of hate or very desperate. so, why are those people so full of hate or so desperate? it depends on their point of view: a strong, powerful country (The US) invades their home countries, kills many civilians and undermines their culture. Moreover, the USA supports Isreal with high tech weapons which are responsible for many killed civilians (they bombed residential areas during the lebanon war because in which terrorist tried to hide).
fact is, that the western world is responsible for most of the recent wars. if we decide to invade a country we can rely on our high tech weapons ... if they decide to strike back they can not rely on high tech weapons but have to capture a plane and fly into two towers ...
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Ok. First the US doesn't support Israel with high tech weapons, they sell the weapons to Israel just as they do to many country's including the likes of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Nor do they give money to Israel, they loan the money to them just as they have with many country's (Britain included) to help build an economy, those loans end this year. What sparked the Israeli/Arab event started 1300 years ago.

The modern problem started in 1922 by the league of nations (old UN) when they asked Britain who was in control of Palestine to build the infrastructure for an Israeli state. Britain was unable to complete this though and pulled out in 1945. In 1947 the newly formed UN approved the partition plan to divide the country into two states, Arab and Jewish, and turn Jerusalem into an international city. The Arab League rejected the plan but the UN went ahead with it anyway. The following 61 years has been nothing more than a blood bath, but i fail to see how you can blame the USA for this.

Quote:
so, why are those people so full of hate or so desperate?

Read this. Some people simply hate the world, and islam gives them a way of expressing that hate.

Quote:
they bombed residential areas during the lebanon war because in which terrorist tried to hide

Terrorist all over the world hide in residential areas as it gives them a win/win situation.

Quote:
fact is, that the western world is responsible for most of the recent wars.

The western would is not responsible for most of the resent wars. Try looking though this wiki link and tell me how many of those wars were/are the fault of the west.

There have been many terrorist attacks in China over the last couple of years because the 30million Muslims in northwestern China want independence. Many more including the school full of children in Russia trying to force Russia into given Chechnya independence. Only a week ago another terrorist attack in India over Kashmir, Darfur? Etc Etc.

------------------------

Look Evariste, of course the vast majority of Muslim a peaceful people, and the country's of Europe and the US have an equal amount of blood on their hands, yet people forget that follows of Islam have been at war for over a thousand years with Europeans, Africans, Russians, Chinese and Indians Etc. And that the middle east during the time of Mohammad was mainly made up of Jews and Pagans who he didn't convert though peaceful preaching, but rather war and bribery.

Most of the hijackers in the 11 September attacks in America were from Saudi Arabia which has a higher average wage then many eastern European country's or China, etc. Why aren't those people flying planes into American buildings? I'm sure they could fined a reason for it is they wanted too. Look at Iraq, most of the deaths since the end of the war have been by Muslims terrorists against Muslims, why? because their religion gives them the money, materials and most importantly the reason to do so. Christianity is no different, yet it has managed to move on. Islam can do this too, just look at Turkey for example.

America can be blamed for many things, but not the aggressive behaviour of Islam. It's Islam itself that has to change.
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Scifor Refugee
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Cat1981(England) wrote:
Ok. First the US doesn't support Israel with high tech weapons, they sell the weapons to Israel just as they do to many country's including the likes of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Nor do they give money to Israel, they loan the money to them just as they have with many country's (Britain included) to help build an economy, those loans end this year. What sparked the Israeli/Arab event started 1300 years ago.


The US does seem to make it a point to sell the most (and best) weapons to Israel.

Quote:

UNITED NATIONS - When the United States sells state-of-the-art weapons systems to Arab nations, it invariably provides even more lethal and sophisticated arms to its steadfast ally, Israel, in order to help counter the firepower of its neighbours.0805 03

So, when Egypt gets the M60A3 and M1A1 Abrams battle tanks, Israel gets the TOW-2A and Hellfire anti-tank missiles to blow up the Egyptian vehicles — in the event of a military confrontation between the two countries currently wedded to the 1979 Camp David peace treaty.

Likewise, when the United States grudgingly provides McDonnell Douglas F-15 fighter planes to Saudi Arabia, Israel is armed either with Sidewinder and Sparrow air-to-air missiles or Hawk and Stinger surface-to-air missiles to bring down the U.S.-supplied Saudi aircraft.

Every U.S. government has ensured that no weapons sales to Arab nations would undermine Israel’s traditional “qualitative (military) advantage” over its perceived rivals.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/05/2993/
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evariste.galois
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Quote:
Ok. First the US doesn't support Israel with high tech weapons, they sell the weapons to Israel just as they do to many country's including the likes of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.


Selling or supporting is the same thing in this case. The US does not sell any weapons to Lebanon, Iran or Iraq (before). The USA supported Isreal in its nuclear weapons programme. Now, they menace Iran with a war because Iran wants to have the same kind of weapons (or at least, thats what the US government tries to tell us). The problem is that the US is obviously biased.

Quote:
Quote:
they bombed residential areas during the lebanon war because in which terrorist tried to hide

Terrorist all over the world hide in residential areas as it gives them a win/win situation.


Well, if you accept to kill civilians, then you must not wonder why normal people, who have lost members of their families, will hate you for this as well. it is simply inhuman and it is supported by the western world. we apply double standards.

Quote:
Quote:
fact is, that the western world is responsible for most of the recent wars.

The western would is not responsible for most of the resent wars. Try looking though this wiki link and tell me how many of those wars were/are the fault of the west.


Ok, this list contains many little civil wars and civil commotions in many developing countries. I leave it up to you to count the number of deaths to put it into perspective ...

Quote:
Most of the hijackers in the 11 September attacks in America were from Saudi Arabia which has a higher average wage then many eastern European country's or China, etc. Why aren't those people flying planes into American buildings?


Eastern European countries are economically backward because of the socialist regimes. If at all, they would blame russia. But the soviet union does not exist anymore. moreover, the US supports those regions in an effort to prevent Russia's influence. neither eastern european countries nor china are continously attacked by an enemy that is provided with weapons from the US.



[/quote]
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Scifor Refugee wrote:
The US does seem to make it a point to sell the most (and best) weapons to Israel.


As Israel is one of the USA closest allies it's hardly surprising that they do, and how long would it be before war broke out in the region if they were on equal footing as many of the Islamic states still don't recognise the UN created Israel. As it points out in your link though Israel the only is a full democracy in the region.

evariste.galois wrote:
Selling or supporting is the same thing in this case. The US does not sell any weapons to Lebanon, Iran or Iraq (before).

Exactly, 40% of the current Lebanon population is Christian, their prime minister is a Christian, so it has more to do with the country political stability rather then their religion. When you consider that Lebanon could descend into civil war or enter into a regional war i think that by not selling them weapons the US has shown a great deal of responsibility. As for Iran and Iraq the reasons for not selling them weapons is blindingly obvious.

Quote:
The USA supported Isreal in its nuclear weapons programme.

Britain and France help Israel develop it's nuclear weapons during the 50's and 60's, it had nothing to do with the US.

Quote:
Now, they menace Iran with a war because Iran wants to have the same kind of weapons (or at least, thats what the US government tries to tell us). The problem is that the US is obviously biased.

Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1968. The NNPT state that any country has the right to peacefully use nuclear technology and that all the country's that signed the treaty must allow the International Atomic Energy Agency monitor and report any country that try's to develop nuclear weapons or stop them from monitoring to the UN. Iran violated the treaty by trying to develop it's own enrichment program for two decades undetected and was reported to the UN (an international organisation ) by the IAEA (an international organisation), again this has nothing to do with the US.

Quote:
Well, if you accept to kill civilians, then you must not wonder why normal people, who have lost members of their families, will hate you for this as well. it is simply inhuman and it is supported by the western world. we apply double standards.

There has been over 11,000 islamic terrorist attacks since 11 September 2001, over half of all the world assigned terrorist attacks, despite Muslims only making up 1/6th of the world population. Do you really want to get into a debate about innocent civilians who have lost their family members?

Quote:
Ok, this list contains many little civil wars and civil commotions in many developing countries. I leave it up to you to count the number of deaths to put it into perspective ...

So you acknowledge that your last statement "fact is, that the western world is responsible for most of the recent wars." is wrong then. Good.

Since my last post on the 4th there have been 51 Islamic terrorist attacks around the world inculding...
3 in China
14 in Iraq
4 in Philippines
2 in Somalia
11 in Pakistan
4 in Thailand
6 in Afghanistan
....and a host of others from individual country's, 363 killed in total, hundreds more injured. Not bad for 9 days work.
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GrowlingDog
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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icewendigo wrote:
1962 Operation Northwoods Join Chiefs of Staff plans for False Flag terrorism campaign against US civilans to sell war againt Cuba(plan not enacted)

1967, June 8: USS Liberty, 34 US servicemen killed by unmarked Israeli jetfighters and Israeli torpedo boat, fighters from US Carrier launched to assists are recalled by LBJ, the USS Liberty fails to sink and survivors tell the tale despite cover-up.

1997 NORAD and FEMA hold exercises in which terrorists crash highjacked airliners planes into buildings including World Trade Center


2000
- Pakistani ISI Director General Ahmad orders an aide to wire transfer about $100,000 to hijacker Atta.

- A secret military operation named Able Danger identifies four future 9/11 hijackers, Able Danger is shut down by superiors, its files are erased.

- PNAC Rebuilding Americas Defenses "change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbour".

- Oct. Operation Pentagon MASCAL, exercise simulating terrorists smashing a plane into the Pentagon


2001

JULY
- Osama Bin Laden receives treatment at the American hospital in Dubai

- FBI agents in Chicago and Minnesota are pulled off investigation into terrorist network

AUGUST
- US company Raytheon landed a 727 six times in a military base in New Mexico without any pilots on board. This was done to test equipment to allow ground control to take over the flying of a hijacked plane.

SEPTEMBER
SEPT 6-10 CIA front bank used to buy Put Options on AA UA Merryl

SEPT 8-9
Power down in South Tower from the 48th floor up (while engineers are seen going in and out)

SEPT 10
- Bin Laden is admitted to a military hospital in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, for kidney dialysis treatment. Pakistani military forces guard bin Laden (CBS).

- President Bush signs the go ahead to attack Afghanistan (according Newsweek)

SEPT 11
- Several NORAD exercises are held(Vigilant Guardian, etc) some include highjacked airlines.

- National Reconnaissance Office(NRO) hold evacuation exercise of plane crash into building scenario with skeleton CIA crew.

- Odigo(israeli) 2 employees get warning message about WTC attack 2 hours before crash

- 5 Israelis film the WTC crashes(later claim they were documenting the event) and heard cheering as the WTC collapse

- Israelis are arrested with explosives near George Washington Bridge

- Explosion in the WTC basement occurs moments before crash

- Before any WTC collapse, explosions in the basement/lobby of WTC7 trap Barry Jennings and Mike Hess in staircase after they left the empty OEM on the 8th floor.

- Cheney was briefed by military on regular basis about monitored incoming plane(Pentagon) (as stated by secretary of transportaion)


Let me guess, you got all this info not from the BBC or CNN but from the internet and would it be a stretch to say that whoever you got this information from is also selling a book or a video.

South Park is spot on, 1 in 4 Americans are retards.
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evariste.galois
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Quote:
As Israel is one of the USA closest allies it's hardly surprising that they do,


That is what i was trying to explain all the time. The USA is biased. Isreal is one of its closest allies. So, the ennemies of Isreal consider the USA as an ennemy as well. I do not want to engage in a discussion wether Isreal respects human rights (if it is not for its own people) or about the kind of warfare, but everything Isreal does is perceived, from the point of view of the palestinians e.g., as if the USA would do it.

Quote:
Exactly, 40% of the current Lebanon population is Christian, their prime minister is a Christian, so it has more to do with the country political stability rather then their religion. When you consider that Lebanon could descend into civil war or enter into a regional war i think that by not selling them weapons the US has shown a great deal of responsibility. As for Iran and Iraq the reasons for not selling them weapons is blindingly obvious.


Come on! responsability? that is a bad joke. the only reason why they do not sell any weapons to those countries is the alliance with Israel.

Quote:
Quote:
The USA supported Isreal in its nuclear weapons programme.

Britain and France help Israel develop it's nuclear weapons during the 50's and 60's, it had nothing to do with the US.


ok, i was wrong on that. but, israel does not face any consequences for having nuclear weapons while other countries do.

Quote:
Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1968. The NNPT state that any country has the right to peacefully use nuclear technology and that all the country's that signed the treaty must allow the International Atomic Energy Agency monitor and report any country that try's to develop nuclear weapons or stop them from monitoring to the UN. Iran violated the treaty by trying to develop it's own enrichment program for two decades undetected and was reported to the UN (an international organisation ) by the IAEA (an international organisation), again this has nothing to do with the US.


Still, they apply double standards. you can not argue that one country needs nuclear weapons, another one may not have them ... thats arbitrary.


Quote:
There has been over 11,000 islamic terrorist attacks since 11 September 2001, over half of all the world assigned terrorist attacks, despite Muslims only making up 1/6th of the world population. Do you really want to get into a debate about innocent civilians who have lost their family members?


There is no point in having a "black" or "white", "good" or "bad", "wrong" or "right" discussion. killing is a crime. killing innocent people even more. NO matter who does it. again, our western world is biased. we have been shocked to see 5.000 people die from terrorist attacks in the USA.
do we care as much to know that five million people starve to dead each year? do we care as much if the US makes up wrong reasons to attack iraq and thousands of inncocent people die? do we care if iran would attack isreal because its nuclear weapons are a treath for the people in iran? would we consider such a war as justified?

Quote:
So you acknowledge that your last statement "fact is, that the western world is responsible for most of the recent wars." is wrong then. Good.


no, i dont. again, just count the number of deaths to put it into perspective ...

Quote:
Since my last post on the 4th there have been 51 Islamic terrorist attacks around the world inculding...


nobody supports terrorist attacks! you see only one side of the coin. thats my point. you should just try to understand why somebody would kill himself in a terrorist attack. what in the world can induce somebody to do a desperate thing like that?
your answer goes like this: some people just hate the world, their religion gives them the justification to do so etc.

i say: try to understand the root of the problem to solve it. otherwise it will never stop.
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Ophiolite
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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evariste.galois wrote:
i say: try to understand the root of the problem to solve it. otherwise it will never stop.
Good advice that will be ignored by the people who would benefit from it the most.
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