| Would a forensics/criminology subforum interest you? |
| Yes |
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90% |
[ 9 ] |
| No |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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Message
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| william |
 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: forensics section... |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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I brought this up in a general discussion thread, but thought I'd formally suggest it here (seems appropriate...).
Anyone in favor of a forensics/criminology section?
Cheers,
william
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane.
Last edited by william on Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 2088
Location: South Africa
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I
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| scientstphilosophertheist |
| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 1058
Location: "Jamerica"...When in America, Florida; when in Jamaica, St. Mary
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2401
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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is there enough knowledge of forensics out there to fill a sub-forum on the subject - apart from what we think we know from tv series, which isn't reallythe same ? (sorry to be a fly in the ointment)
_________________
if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| william |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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| marnixR wrote: |
| is there enough knowledge of forensics out there to fill a sub-forum on the subject - apart from what we think we know from tv series, which isn't reallythe same ? (sorry to be a fly in the ointment) |
Hi Marn,
The same could have been said about many other subforums I think.
Personally, I'm dying to start a discussion about a relatively famous case that has yet to be solved. I think the patrons here would find it interesting - even if they might not be able to contribute.
Cheers,
william
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 2088
Location: South Africa
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ZODIAC KILLER?
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| william |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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Hi Chaps,
I just made this into a poll.
Cheers
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane. |
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| william |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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Let me try my hand at selling this idea...
Here's what I invision this subforum might consist of:
1. The discussion of real cases.
E.g., KALSTER mentions the Zodiac. This person killed several people in the late '60's and early '70's. His crimes were succeded by calls to the police (within hours of the crimes - before they were discovered) and taunting letters to the local newspapers. Some of his letters included ciphers - one of which has yet to be cracked (I believe). Known victims number 7, 2 of which survived. He claims to have a tally of 37. There may be a murder (strikingly similar in style) dating back as early as 1966 that may be the work of the Zodiac.
He was never caught....
There is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that points to one person. However, DNA taken from known Zodiac letters (ones where he included bits of a bloody shirt taken from one of the victims) didn't match this suspect. Could the Zodiac have known, in the early '70's - way before the dawn of DNA analysis, not to lick the envelopes and stamps? In that case, who did lick these envelopes?
2. The psychology of crime.
What drives criminals? What is the mindset of a serial rapist/killer?
Ted Bundy was a bright, lawyer in the making. He feigned injuries to lure female victims. He would have sex with the corpses days after the murder. He confessed to 29 murders. There may have been more. What could drive someone to value other's lives so little?
3. Techniques of crime-scene investigation (CSI).
E.g., the human body creates two types of sweat - eccrine and apocrine. The apocrine is the smelly kind, and the eccrine is the kind that regulates body temperature. The smelly kind is more useful in CSI, however, both can provide useful evidence. Techniques have advanced so much that, analysis of bedsheets (e.g.) can not only tell us whether the victim was in that bed, but also roughly when they were there.
4. Eyewitness testimony.
How reliable is it? Could you positively identify a suspect, keeping in mind that you may have been under extreme distress during the crime? One has to wonder how many possibly innocent suspects were convicted based on eyewitness testimony....
5. Profiling vs. "hard" forensics.
Could profiling actually lead police away from the true suspect? What goes into profiling? Can we really gain that much insight into the criminal from the crime scene? (John Douglas has written many books about his experience as an FBI profiler....)
6. Imaginary scenarios.
Do you think you could solve a crime?
Imagine... you are a rookie policeman. You are called as a first responder to a murder. You are the first to arrive. What should you do? What shouldn't you do? Now imagine you are the detective assigned to the case. Same questions.
7. Real scenarios.
In 1986, a British-turned American engineer was found dead in his den where he lived in Buenos Aires. Cause of death - carbon monoxide poisoning. Carbon monoxide has ~300 times greater ability to mix with with haemoglobin than does oxygen, thus starving the human body of its needed oxygen.
Carbon monoxide is produced in many ways; coal-gas, automobile exhaust, coke ovens, domestic appliances, etc. However, there were no signs of where this gas could have come from in the den and home of our victim....
Was the body moved from the crime scene and placed in the den after death?
When death occurs, blood circulation rapidly ceases, and gravity takes over. The blood settles in the places of lowest gravitational potential (i.e. the lower parts of the body relative to "up"). This is called hypostasis. Blood cannot flow into areas of the body that are "compressed" (e.g., the arse if the person is seated). Careful analysis of the body indicated that the victim had not been moved after death.
Was this a suicide? Murder? Freak accident?
Where did the carbon monoxide come from?
Police were baffled....
(This case was eventually solved BTW.)
Did I sell it...?
Cheers,
william
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane.
Last edited by william on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2401
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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you got me convinced - i'm in
_________________
if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Subjects such as Criminology, the Law and forensic science are probably most closely related to Behavioral & Social Sciences - would you like this thread moved there? |
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| william |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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| Megabrain wrote: |
| Subjects such as Criminology, the Law and forensic science are probably most closely related to Behavioral & Social Sciences - would you like this thread moved there? |
Hi Mega,
It doesn't really matter to me where this thread is. I just thought having a stand-alone forensics subsection might be nice.
Cheers,
william
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane. |
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| Neutrino |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 980
Location: Columbus, OH
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| I was on the fence but your post convinced me. I do wonder if there'll be enough posts to merit its own forum but there's no harm in trying. |
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| william |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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| Neutrino wrote: |
| I was on the fence but your post convinced me. I do wonder if there'll be enough posts to merit its own forum but there's no harm in trying. |
Hi Neutrino,
I worry about that too.
The closest thing we have to a criminology section is the "behavioral and social sciences" section. Surely we could discuss profiling and such in there. But when the discussion branches off into other crime-investigating techniques, real cases, etc., they no longer really fit into that section anymore.
I don't think a criminology section would generate as much traffic as the religion section, but it would be nice to have a criminology section where these specific things can be discussed. It might even draw the attention of "passers by" that aren't really interested in the rest of this forum. I could even imagine a few law enforcement officers taking part. That would be neat.
Thanks for your support.
Cheers,
william
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane. |
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| HomoUniversalis |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Site Admin
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 953
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
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Done. It can always be reversed (threads moved to 'behavioural science') should the interest be low. Now go ye yonder and make some threads!
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| william |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 911
Location: USA
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| HomoUniversalis wrote: |
| Done. It can always be reversed (threads moved to 'behavioural science') should the interest be low. Now go ye yonder and make some threads! |
Thank you HU!
I am pretty busy today and the next. But I'll definitely start a few threads there.
Cheers,
william 
_________________
"... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
About my avatar: This is a smoothed particle hydrodynamics (SPH) simulation of the merger of two galaxies. The code was written by Volker Springel of the Max Planck Institute for Astrophysics at Garching Germany. This simulation uses 20,000 disk particles (stars) and 40,000 halo particles (dark matter) per galaxy. The three views are, from left to right, the x-y plane, x-z plane, and y-z plane. |
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