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| drugs, should they be illegal? |
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| medlakeguy |
 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: drugs, should they be illegal? |
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why are drugs illegal? i know they can be dangerous (probably not as much as their made out to be) but doesn't a person, in a free country, have the right to harm themselves any way they see fit? and if you're objective is preventing harm to a person, how are lengthy prison sentences for substance sale/abuse helping?
don't you think their illegality leads to making drugs even more dangerous because they can be mixed and cut with whatever the person dealing them wants...
studies show that most drug users are nonviolent http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2002/report-most-drug-offenders-in.html
and if we trust people to control themselves with something like alcohol (most can and some can't) why not expect people to be grown up enough to handle themselves with other substances
hell at least make pot legal, we're wasting time and money prosecuting it |
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Yea, if alcohol is legal weed should certainly be legal, much less dangerous and addictive.
I'd draw the line at drugs that can make people violent or in other ways dangerous to other people. Perhaps drugs that are so addictive that a first-time user immediately gets hooked should also stay off the shelves. But weed probably reduces violence in society rather than increasing it.. |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Well, first of all, alot of drugs ARE legal, Caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, tobacco, guarana etc...
Harming yourself is not the issue here, it is when people start harming others when linked to drugs.
examples: Drunk driving, being hopped up on lsd, cocaine, these are bad.
Laws are put in place to make a divide between what is considered by the majority to be safe, and what isn't.
There are fine lines and some things that are illegal may not be as bad as society perceives them to be, but as long as the people using these drugs continue to break laws and be part of violent crimes it will be harder to legalize.
Also, the government likes to be able to regulate drugs like tobacco and alcohol, some drugs that grow more easily cannot be as easily regulated so they are made illegal, even if those drugs cause less or equal damage to heavy drinking. As long as the majority of people find this regulation to be a good thing, this is how it will be. Some countries have less drug restriction, some have more. It depends on the majority opinion on how much better life is with or without something.
Personally, I think life is much better without drugs, though I do consume alcohol on occasion, I Average about 6 drinks every month.
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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Legalization of drugs is much better than the current state of things. Right now drugs provide a large income base for organized crime and dictatorships like those in Columbia and previously the Taliban in Afghanistan.
If you legalize the production of opiates, it would provide safer distribution.
Marijuana is legal in Amsterdam, but levels of drug use in Amsterdam are on average about the same or lower than most countries where marijuana is legal. Moreover, drug addicts have higher life expectancies in Holland.
Cocaine is not dangerous to other people,  , it's a rich person's drug that people do at parties and clubs, it is dangerous to the user though, but that is the person's right.
LSD can be potentially dangerous to others, but this has not been shown to readily happen, and it is certainly less dangerous than alcohol on a societal level.
Crack is a very dangerous drug, it is highly addictive and very bad for a person's health, the reason why people do crack is it is dirt cheap and easy to get. If other safer drugs are legalized, I suspect usage of crack would decrease.
Pharmaceuticals should remain available only by prescription, because people intending to use them for the proper purposes could misuse them if they didn't get them through a doctor's direction.
Society can only benefit from taking money out of the hands of criminals as far as I see it. To use or not to use is a personal choice, I don't smoke marijuana/tobacco or drink alcohol. I don't think drug use would rise from legalization either.
One thing for sure is that the 3 strikes law in the USA for drug posession is absurd, you can rape a woman and get 20 years, but if you're caught with marijuana 3 times you go to jail for life. This law is just complete nonsense. |
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| medlakeguy |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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| Quote: |
| One thing for sure is that the 3 strikes law in the USA for drug posession is absurd, you can rape a woman and get 20 years, but if you're caught with marijuana 3 times you go to jail for life. This law is just complete nonsense. |
i did not know that... for lack of a better word, that's fucked up
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| There are fine lines and some things that are illegal may not be as bad as society perceives them to be, but as long as the people using these drugs continue to break laws and be part of violent crimes it will be harder to legalize. |
i think cause and effect are getting mixed up here. naturally bad people are more likely to commit crimes if their high on something, but they'd be doing that anyways.
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| Some countries have less drug restriction, some have more. It depends on the majority opinion on how much better life is with or without something. |
it shouldn't be about the majority opinion, it should be up to the individual what makes their life better or worse.
you cross a dangerous line when you start letting the government decide for people whats good for them |
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| georginho_juventusygr |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: drugs, should they be illegal? |
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Does legalization of all drugs make our life more dangerous? Yes, in some circumstances, such as what SuperNatendo said.
Does legalization of all drugs harm our freedom? Maybe not.
Does legalization of all drugs violent our pursuit of happiness? Yes, the people who don't use drugs maybe don't feel safe whereever they are surrounded by drug addicts.
So, it shouldn't be legal.
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Nashville, TN USA
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The government only has as much power as the people give it. No matter how oppressive a government becomes, it CAN be overthrown.
We mustn't give up our freedoms lightly, and I believe a small amount of these drug restrictions are causing worse things than they are preventing just as prohibition did. But I cannot think of a logical reason for a person using cocaine, lsd, heroine, etc... Maybe it is because I have never tried anything beyond alcohol, nor do I have a desire to, but If you "NEED" this stuff or even want to try it maybe you have a few things you need to work out with yourself?
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| medlakeguy |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Does legalization of all drugs make our life more dangerous? Yes, in some circumstances, such as what SuperNatendo said. |
i think Benjamin Franklin said it best
"those who would sacrifice liberty for a little security deserve neither"
By the way, crime would most likely decrease if drugs were legal. seeing as how they'd be legal, people could use mildly and still get a job. they'd be cheaper and more available, people wouldn't need to steal to support their habit anymore.
cops wouldn't be wasting their time on petty drug use so they could devote more of their resources to real crime. come to think of it legalization would make our lives much, much safer. |
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| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why are some drugs illegal? Well it can't be to protect the mental or physical health of those that use them otherwise fatty foods, tv, tobacco, alcohol, video games and a host of other things would be illegal. Is it because drugs can lead to violence? Well, if you ask any police officer or security person what they would rather deal with , a pub full of people drinking alcohol or a pub full of people on ecstacy or pot and the answer will always be the latter. Is it because they can be addictive? once again tv, chocolate, ciggerettes, alcohol and so on are addictive so that cant be it.
Who are the only people that can make drugs legal or illegal? Lawyers. Now, if you go to any court in this country at least, (Australia) you will see that roughly half the cases before the courts are for the possession or sale of illegal drugs. That means half the income for lawyers in the country are from people defending themselves against drug charges, from the poor small time user, to the rich big time drug baron's. Now why would any lawyer fight to legalize anything that could take away half his income?
Add to this politicians (a lot of ex-lawyers) that must convey themselves as clean cut and never breaking the law and a news media that loves to report anything negative regarding illegal drugs (even though some consume illegal drugs them selves).
So, we have a non-drug using part of society that is so paranoid and mis-informed about the real deal with drugs and then you have another group that might use drugs regularly or just occasionally but too afraid to admit it to the paranoid public for fear of what that paranoid, mis-informed group of people might try to have done to them.
If you were an alien race watching how we decide what is illegal and what isn't, surely you would be confused how we make millionaires out of those that sell one thing that is just as addictive and just as bad or worse for your mental and physical health as those things that we imprison others for selling.
Have i used illegal drugs? Yes but i am 38 now and my lifestyle is different from what it was 10 years ago. If the time and the surroundings were right, "i" would have no problem using them again, it doesn't mean i have a drug "problem" though.
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
Cocaine is not dangerous to other people, , it's a rich person's drug
Crack is a very dangerous drug, it is highly addictive and very bad for a person's health, the reason why people do crack is it is dirt cheap and easy to get. |
Do know that crack & cocaine - "freebase" & "base" - are essentially the same thing, just cooked differently. Dealers and users can convert one to the other in any kitchen.
What you're seeing is the difference between pipe tobacco and cartons of cigarettes. A true addict will not kid around with tobacco pipes or snorted coke.
The key challenge of highly addictive drugs, in my opinion, is that people of any intellectual sophistication and supposed rationality can become addicted. If your aim in life boils down to personal happiness, then one try and you're screwed. Because crack and smack do answer better than one can possibly imagine. It is rational to cast all else aside for the high. Given mainstream values, it's the right thing to do. The addicted can be perfectly lucid about this, and I'd be convinced they're right, except I don't believe happiness a desirable goal in life.
We have to push a stigma around these drugs, or a lot of nice people will get lost to them. By pushing I mean the little lie "drugs are bad" when in fact many drugs are too good. Until we change our values. |
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| georginho_juventusygr |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| medlakeguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Does legalization of all drugs make our life more dangerous? Yes, in some circumstances, such as what SuperNatendo said. |
i think Benjamin Franklin said it best
"those who would sacrifice liberty for a little security deserve neither"
By the way, crime would most likely decrease if drugs were legal. seeing as how they'd be legal, people could use mildly and still get a job. they'd be cheaper and more available, people wouldn't need to steal to support their habit anymore.
cops wouldn't be wasting their time on petty drug use so they could devote more of their resources to real crime. come to think of it legalization would make our lives much, much safer. |
I think it's not "a little security". Many, many people have been addicted to drugs. And the effects? The fact says that they aren't good. People usually begin to try drugs in their teen age because it's the age when people always want to try every new thing. And when someone becomes addicted, he/she begins to ruin his/her life. Is this what we want? No, that's why drugs aren't legal.
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We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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| georginho_juventusygr wrote: |
I think it's not "a little security". Many, many people have been addicted to drugs. And the effects? The fact says that they aren't good. People usually begin to try drugs in their teen age because it's the age when people always want to try every new thing. And when someone becomes addicted, he/she begins to ruin his/her life. Is this what we want? No, that's why drugs aren't legal. |
You could say the same for alcohol or gambling, and countries where certain drugs have been legalized have shown that the amount of drug users doesn't rise. |
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| medlakeguy |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| georginho_juventusygr wrote: |
I think it's not "a little security". Many, many people have been addicted to drugs. And the effects? The fact says that they aren't good. People usually begin to try drugs in their teen age because it's the age when people always want to try every new thing. And when someone becomes addicted, he/she begins to ruin his/her life. Is this what we want? No, that's why drugs aren't legal. |
you can become addicted to anything, many people just do drugs on occasion and are fine. but if you do get yourself addicted, its your right to ruin your life. would you imprison people for dropping out of school? that can very well ruin your life. would you imprison people for eating to much? that can ruin your life too. what about skydiving? your parachute just has to fail once.
it should never be up to the government to decide what's good/bad for you or whats morally wrong. that should always be up to the individual. |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| medlakeguy wrote: |
| it should never be up to the government to decide what's good/bad for you or whats morally wrong. that should always be up to the individual. |
I agree. But we wish our children may play in the park without encountering some creepy junkies huddled under the jungle gym.
In fact the neighbourhood park my son most plays at, happens to be something of a hippy scene. There's an everpresent mill of shaggy loafers, sometimes laughing and hooting, sometimes swaggering and fighting, mostly just sprawled around in clusters... for pot is legal in my city and the police don't bother them. Well, these rascals do bother me. A lot of these characters are unstable addicts, growing crazy, desperate, psychopathic, before our eyes.
| medlakeguy wrote: |
| its your right to ruin your life |
It's not only their lives, it is other people's lives too. This is where government and even police come in. |
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| medlakeguy |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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| Quote: |
| But we wish our children may play in the park without encountering some creepy junkies huddled under the jungle gym. |
i agree, but maybe if our cities built more shelters for the homeless and gave people good places to shoot up with clean needles and the like we wouldn't have that problem
but you make the mistake of thinking all drug users are complete junkies. i know a woman who does heroin and while shes not exactly successful, she certainly doesn't live under a jungle gym.
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A lot of these characters are unstable addicts, growing crazy, desperate, psychopathic, before our eyes.
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we as a society often forget drug use is more often a symptom of a problem and not the problem itself. unstable people may gravitate to using drugs unwisely, and naturally being unstable, they act unstable. so why not fix their problems instead of throwing them away for years at a time? we cant keep scapegoating drug use for all of societies problems. |
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