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| ENG.M |
 Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Melbourne / Australia
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| verzen wrote: |
In a debate, you cannot state something exists, end of story. Please, explain... in scientific terms, why you think he exists. Do NOT just say, "Because the bible says so" Because the bible is one big lie... a fairytale if you will. |
my friend, forget about any religion book.
1-God exists because all creatures in life must have been dsigned in a complex way by a mind.
our bodies are devices that do specific functions.
anything with an accurate function must have a maker.
2-he must be one because everything in the world is structured in a similar way.(electrons,protons and neutrons).
evolution is not true simply because there hasn't been any improvement in our DNA throughover our lives.
all changes led to diseases only.
many animals have different abilities and you can't decide sometimes which is better than the other.(one flies,other swims, one runs,one fights and etc).
there should be someone created all these and gave them different powers and skills.(they couldn't have these skills by themselves).
thanx
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| Tenacity |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Instow, Devon, UK
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| ENG.M wrote: |
| verzen wrote: |
In a debate, you cannot state something exists, end of story. Please, explain... in scientific terms, why you think he exists. Do NOT just say, "Because the bible says so" Because the bible is one big lie... a fairytale if you will. |
my friend, forget about any religion book.
1-God exists because all creatures in life must have been dsigned in a complex way by a mind.
our bodies are devices that do specific functions.
anything with an accurate function must have a maker.
2-he must be one because everything in the world is structured in a similar way.(electrons,protons and neutrons).
evolution is not true simply because there hasn't been any improvement in our DNA throughover our lives.
all changes led to diseases only.
many animals have different abilities and you can't decide sometimes which is better than the other.(one flys,other swims, one runs,one fights and etc).
there should be someone created all these and gave them different powers and skills.(they couldn't have these skills by themselves).
thanx |
As to your first point; could not everything be uniform because that is the only way they could have formed? They could not exist in the same place under two completely different sets of physical rules ergo they have to have similar properties.
For your second point toward evolution; I'm not entirely sure you understand the concept correctly as evolution occurs over a long period of time whereas you stated that it doesn't happen during our lifetimes. If evolution has not occured then why are there three distinct versions of the human race, each equipped best to deal with their environments? Infact if you go back even a few millenia you can see a difference between humans then and humans now. The average roman male of the time stood at approximately 5'3", the average in Italy today is approximately 5'10". Also cranial capacity has increased between that time and this. |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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Evolution doesn't happen in an instant, it usually takes thousands of years
to make any change in our bodies.
The design of each creature is based on the area and the atmosphere where he lives.
The Nordic people usually had tough skin and alot of hair to protect them from the harsh wintery cilamte where they lives.
People who their ancestors lives in middle Asia usually have shrinked eyelids to protect their eyes from the sun.
African people have special dark skin so they are dont get sun bruises that easely...
Undersand that living beings MUST learn to adapt to their living area or else they perish. By scientific terms, God has nothing to do with how we(or anything else) looks today.
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 May 2008
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Location: Melbourne / Australia
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| Tenacity wrote: |
As to your first point; could not everything be uniform because that is the only way they could have formed? They could not exist in the same place under two completely different sets of physical rules ergo they have to have similar properties.
For your second point toward evolution; I'm not entirely sure you understand the concept correctly as evolution occurs over a long period of time whereas you stated that it doesn't happen during our lifetimes. If evolution has not occured then why are there three distinct versions of the human race, each equipped best to deal with their environments? Infact if you go back even a few millenia you can see a difference between humans then and humans now. The average roman male of the time stood at approximately 5'3", the average in Italy today is approximately 5'10". Also cranial capacity has increased between that time and this.[/
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I got your point.but why are you saying this? aren't we all part from one nature? is there any natural or other accurate system existing now that occured by chance and we are sure about how it happened?
how can revolution produce cameras, hydrolic systems, sound systems, radar, harmonic technology and more which took people thousands of years to develop and make?
I know you would say that took billions of billions of years to be created under unknown conditions.
I wont discuss the probability of this to happen because that's a very huge number.
I will discuss four issues.
*how do people consider evolution a science while they don't have any clue about it? only imaginations(humans levels are not a strong proof since creatures accommodate with their environments but to a limit they can't exceed)>
*if evolution exists? who made it work? (there must be a mind, a power above all powers.something that everything comes from).
*what about feelings and beauty?how does this theory explain them?
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
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Gentlemen, if we must have yet another debate on creationism versus evolution could we conduct it in a thread set up for that purpose, not in the middle of a quite different thread about Gods.
If you wish to continue pm me and I shall split the relevant posts off.
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Melbourne / Australia
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| Hanuka wrote: |
Evolution doesn't happen in an instant, it usually takes thousands of years
to make any change in our bodies.
The design of each creature is based on the area and the atmosphere where he lives.
The Nordic people usually had tough skin and alot of hair to protect them from the harsh wintery cilamte where they lives.
People who their ancestors lives in middle Asia usually have shrinked eyelids to protect their eyes from the sun.
African people have special dark skin so they are dont get sun bruises that easely...
Undersand that living beings MUST learn to adapt to their living area or else they perish. By scientific terms, God has nothing to do with how we(or anything else) looks today. |
I understand from your talks that their bodies have been adapted with different enviroments.
that means there was a mind that created these rules or put these features in their bodies depending on different envirnoments.
how can their bodies by themselves create something they need? do they have minds?
or there should be a God to plan for this technology or evolution as they call.
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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| ENG.M wrote: |
I got your point.but why are you saying this? aren't we all part from one nature? is there any natural or other accurate system existing now that occured by chance and we are sure about how it happened?
how can revolution produce cameras, hydrolic systems, sound systems, radar, harmonic technology and more which took people thousands of years to develop and make?
Evolution(if you mean evolution offcourse) didnt produce technologies, WE-Humans did. Actually you answer your own question...
I know you would say that took billions of billions of years to be created under unknown conditions.
I wont discuss the probability of this to happen because that's a very huge number.
Water and correct planet positioning from a sun give you the perfect conditions to create life, it's not that complicated...
The probability of finding such a planet is really distant, but luckily Earth god lucky 
I will discuss four issues.
*how do people consider evolution a science while they don't have any clue about it? only imaginations(humans levels are not a strong proof since creatures accommodate with their environments but to a limit they can't exceed)>
You know that little areas in science called archeology and paleontology?...
The answers are there...
*if evolution exists? who made it work? (there must be a mind, a power above all powers.something that everything comes from).
Evolution is not a machine, no one makes it "work"...
It is something that living things do...
*what about feelings and beauty?how does this theory explain them?
Feelings is somewhat a blurry area in science so I can't give you an answer for now...
And as for beauty, it's all relative for the observer...
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Posts: 22
Location: Melbourne / Australia
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| Hanuka wrote: |
Evolution(if you mean evolution offcourse) didnt produce technologies, WE-Humans did. Actually you answer your own question...
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(yeah ,evolution for sure lol)
I meant human ears, eyes, animal radars and other technological systems in nature which are more complex than what we made.
| Hanuka wrote: |
Water and correct planet positioning from a sun give you the perfect conditions to create life, it's not that complicated...
The probability of finding such a planet is really distant, but luckily Earth god lucky
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who created the sun? who gave it this huge amount of power?
who made these correct positions.
| Hanuka wrote: |
You know that little areas in science called archeology and paleontology?...
The answers are there...
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thanx, I will check them out.
| Hanuka wrote: |
Evolution is not a machine, no one makes it "work"...
It is something that living things do...
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so it is a mechanism
a mechanism needs a designer I think.
| Hanuka wrote: |
Feelings is somewhat a blurry area in science so I can't give you an answer for now...
And as for beauty, it's all relative for the observer...
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feelings are the most difficult thing to evolution.
feelings should havse come from a feeling storage (a soul) not a material system.
and you are right , beauty is relative, you have the same idea as mine about it.
see you tomorrow.
good night and thoughts.
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| ENG.M wrote: |
who created the sun? who gave it this huge amount of power?
who made these correct positions.
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sorry , I just wanted to say something about the sentence I wrote above before I go to sleep.(it is already 3 am here).
if the sun stands by itself(which is difficult because it is only fires and may be more but we don't know) and it is the source of everything, then we all must be grateful to it and worship it.
the sun is our God in this case.(I don't agree and I will tell you tomorrow why).
have a nice weekend
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
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Location: South Africa
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Do you thank the coffee before you drink it?
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| KALSTER wrote: |
| Do you thank the coffee before you drink it? |
you make coffee and it doesn't make you.
as evolution says, the sun could be the biggest factor for making us.
the sun made us or contributed hugely in creation.
at the end, evolution is a religion and our God is nature.
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Not the sun, nor nature in its meaning as all of life, but the universe and everything in it. That is just the way it is. The only possible place (for me) where a god could have played a part is at the moment of creation, or the big bang. Everything else can be the result of the laws of physics at work in my opinion. That does NOT take away any of the sheer grandness of it all in the least bit, to me. Love is still love and the feeling is just as strong and real, whether it is the result of a soul or an adapted trait. What we do and feel for and to each other is just as important, whether it is God’s will or an adapted survival mechanism.
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| verzen |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| This Eng guy... he is quickly becoming a nuisance that must be put down..... *mutter* *mutter* Prepare thy self... |
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| Tenacity |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| To be honest I don't actually mind if there is a god provided he obeys the laws of Physics. |
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| ENG.M |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenacity wrote: |
| To be honest I don't actually mind if there is a god provided he obeys the laws of Physics. |
me too.
I don't say that evolution is completely wrong.
I say that whether it is creation or evolution , there must be a powerful mind behind everything.
some power that set the rules in our lives.
| KALSTER wrote: |
Everything else can be the result of the laws of physics at work in my opinion.
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who set the mechanisms of these rules?
who made these rules work?
my argument here is :
*do you think evolution doesn't need God?
*do you believe or disbelieve in God and why?
these could be discussed in another thread.
thanx and have a nice weekend.
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