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| GrowlingDog |
 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Will being humane destroy us |
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As humane creatures we like to think that all human life is precious and that as individuals we would like to feed the world and stop people from dying in wars, disease and so on.
However, the biggest threat to this planet and humanity is the over population of humanity. Humanity is a massive drain on all the worlds resources and wildlife so is it humane to keep going like this.
If 100 million people died in a disaster on new years day 2008, by the end of the year there would still be more people on the planet than at the start of the year. It seems the truly humane thing to do is to let people die. In fact, in my opinion this planet could do with a 90% reduction in population. It would ensure enough food, housing, resources for the human race for many, many years to come. Yet, in our apparent compassionate, humane way we won't even allow terminally ill people to end their own lives.
What this planet needs is a serious and deadly plague that wipes out a big chunk of the population. Does anyone seriously believe sustaining an ever increasing population can last much longer?
How upset should we really get when a disaster kills 100,000 people? Is it not less of a drain on the resources of the planet and therefore the extension of the human races existence.
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting idea; if we let people die, we are saving people, if we let people live, we are killing people; somewhat of a paradox....
The only way to get around this would be to inhabit other planets. Though, I have seen multiple examples on The Science Channel of an infinitely renewable environment that we could make. It would cause a change in life style, and everyone would have to participate, but it is possible.
I think that either we do not have the power to take advantage of every resource possible (certain methods may not exist yet), or do not want to because it will decrease the revenue of the companies responsible for the damage.
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| unoscooter |
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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| that is a great idea and i totally agree. it would be benificial to the world if alot of people died like in a plague. the problem is that those are people that some one knows and cares for. so i dont think that humans in there current condition will ever let people die. |
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| GhostoftheFallen |
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Being humane make it so there is no easy answer to overpopulation. Mass killing is not an answer. Imagine if you were one of the people who was chosen to die in order to make more room. Is it worth continuing the human race if we lose our humanity in order to continue?
The only real solutions is to stop the increase in birth rate and to as, Cold Fusion suggested, look to outer space for more space to expand.
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, if all else fails, at least we still have religion as a population subduer.
Religion, bringing you death and destruction since 5,000 BC.
_________________
Forget all that you know, achievements can only be accomplished by starting from nothing and selectively applying facts that are purely objective and absolutely necessary.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"
-Einstein
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
Use your computing strength for science! |
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| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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We also have a problem with where the population is increasing. In the most affluent countries on the planet, internal population is on the decline and there are many affluent countries that rely heavily on immigration to keep things ticking along. Where as in the poorest countries on the planet (mostly in Africa) despite all the hardships in these countries, Africa is the fastest growing (in population) continent on the planet.
We also have the problem of economic growth. the planet and every, at least every western country on it, is fixated on making sure that every year economic growth is at least about 3-4%. It is virtually impossible to maintain economic growth in a developed western world country with an ever DECREASING population. Because of this what democratic country is going to push for a decreasing population.
I feel we are heading rapidly to a time of making some very tough decisions, decisions that may save us as a species (humans) but forever scar us as a people.
Oh and why i love the idea of colonizing space, i think it would be VERY optimistic to say we will have any more than about 100,000 people living off planet in 100 years time. In 100 years time, i'm certainly in no doubt that that would be far too little, far too late.
No, a plague seems like the only humane answer, something that takes out the weak, the old and it wouldn't be too bad if it could target the fanatical, the lazy and the stupid too. Yea that'd be close to 80% wouldn't it?
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| Pong |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I entertained your words as moldy satire until it came to this:
| GrowlingDog wrote: |
| We also have a problem with where the population is increasing... Africa |
We? Who do you speak for? |
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| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Pong wrote: |
I entertained your words as moldy satire until it came to this:
| GrowlingDog wrote: |
| We also have a problem with where the population is increasing... Africa |
We? Who do you speak for? |
We as the human race. WE have a continent that is either starving or fighting itself yet it still has a booming population growth and WE are really doing nothing to either slow down the population growth, feed the starving or stop the fighting.
I'm sorry if all you can see in my comments is racism and prejudice. I obviously dont speak for you. They are observations of the human race and how it has got itself into a bind by being humane. I am not saying we should not be humane but just trying to see things from the perspective of say, an alien racing watching how the world is unfolding.
Oh and i assume you mean MILDLY satire and not moldy, 
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| target the fanatical, the lazy and the stupid |
Agreed.
_________________
Forget all that you know, achievements can only be accomplished by starting from nothing and selectively applying facts that are purely objective and absolutely necessary.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"
-Einstein
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
Use your computing strength for science! |
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| kevvy |
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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It's difficult to comment on this topic without sounding somewhat cold/detached, however we're all scientists here... 
I agree in principle with what GrowlingDog is saying, that the current state of affairs is unsustainable, certainly in the long-term and maybe even in the medium. I am, however, of the opinion that there will never be a (human) solution to this problem due to our overall compassion. In this case the greater good is unlikely to be heeded, as World War Three would break out over the course of deciding who would live/die.
Even the nature of war has changed- no longer (for the most part) do we have armies rushing at each other to see who kills the most men, it is now a much more surgical affair. As was rightly stated the population of Africa continues to increase despite the best efforts of disease/poverty. On the other hand it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain the upper hand against "super-bugs" such as MRSA, perhaps that will instigate the apocalypse required to whittle down humanity.
As for the idea of seeding other planets, at the time of writing we have thus-far just about succeeded in poking the ground of Mars with a spade at the cost of millions. It'll be another while yet before we're ready to roll out the prefabs and set up camp.
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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1) The world's problems arise from, or are made worse by overpopulation.
2) The world is seriously overpopulated at present.
3) Ggrowling Dog's estimate of 90% may be a little high, but is of the right order of magnitude.
4) The rate of increase of population is falling and falling steadily. There is every reason to expect this to continue. The key is to remove poverty. Rich people are wonderfully selfish and do not wish to have many children, since these reduce the amount of money available to spend on plasma TVs, expensive hairdos, and Ferraris.
5) Sudden reductions in population upset the economic stability of the planet, increasing poverty and thereby raising population.
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Will being humane destroy us |
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Joined: 24 Jul 2006
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| GrowlingDog wrote: |
| Humanity is a massive drain on all the worlds resources . |
This is a fallacy.
The population is not a drain on resources, consumerism is.
We could all live much simpler lives, but we in the developed world choose not to, thus the rest of the world suffers.
There are numerous alternative fuel sources but the economy runs on the limited ones.
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| harvestein |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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We go through life cycles of population growth and sudden decline. If we continue to 'overpopulate' you can be sure that nature will conjour up a virus/disease that will soon eliminate a large portion of population.
Then you have natural disasters, like a supervolcanic eruption, or an ice age, or an asteroid strike. These may seem stereotypical hype, but we know for a fact that they happen at regular intervals, and a massive reduction in population is not a hypothetical possibility, but a fact. Sounds sad to say it, but we cant improve our technologies at a rate that could prevent one of the many possible cataclysms that will occur.
Its happened several times before and it will happen again. 
This is before we even take into account the regular depravity of some parts of the human population that somehow manage to rationalise genocide and mass murder. Look at Darfur, nazi germany, and many other examples. you also have the western economic bias starving millions of people in the african continent. The supplying of weapons by western states, china and russia to to keep the perpetual war that is running in the middle east, and other regions, going endlessly. Then there is the prospect of atomic standoff, biological warfare or terrorism.
we like to think these things can be eradicated, but human behaviour has peaks and troughs like any other unstable system.
Im a bit of a pessimist, you could say.
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