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| ArezList |
 Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Why to be Patriotic |
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Posts: 91
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These days , reading some weird news, I wonder "WHY WE NEED TO BE PATROIC" since we don't have chance to choose our nationality?
This os different from our parents, though. Parents concern everything of their offspring. Then what about people in Africa? Their home country leave them in chaios. Should they betray their country? |
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| organic god |
| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 177
Location: The Pro Chair
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i don't know if your born with a sense of being patriotic.
But you can be inspired to be patriotic by a great speech.
look at Churchill.
Or watching great achievements by national sports players can make you patriotic.
I am English and i don't feel patriotic at all.
Mainly because the only Prime ministers I remember are Blair and Brown.
But i have occasionaly felt patriotic or proud of my country.
e.g Rugby World Cup 2003 and wilko's drop goal
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| ArezList |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| but the fact is that all too often we observe someone who is talking firecely or giving a strong sppech as you said always has the slogan.right? |
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I can think of two reasons:
- status: some people can derive status from being a citizen of their country. For example right after WW2 it made a lot of sense to portray oneself as a citizen of one of the allied countries, it would give immediate respect from hundreds of millions of people. Ofcourse the amount of status one can derieve from his citizenship depends on the status of that country, and can change over time.
- reciprocity: humans seem to have a very strong urge of recognizing who owes them a favour and to whom they themselves owe favours. That way we can make sure that we help people who are likely to help us when we need it. One way to facilitate this is by forming tribes, communities or nations, and stating publicly that we're loyal to this group of people. A patriot is someone who publicly states his loyalty to his nation. When patriots meet and recognize eachother (through symbols for example, like flags) they can assume that between eachother reciprocity can be assured, so they can safely help eachother out without fearing that they wouldnt get the same back when they need it. |
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| Benjamin_Langlois |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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From an evolutionary perspective, I believe we all have at least some feeling of patriocity. As humankind has evolved in a tribal environment for the majority of our evolutionary past, a strong feeling of belonging to and protecting the tribe, almost definately consisting of close family members, has a clear evolutionary value from the genes' perspective.
In recent millenia our tribes have grown into nations, however a few millenia is not long enough for evolution to 'realise' the change. We therefore still 'believe' (subconsciously of course) that our tribes consist of close family members and thus we strive to protect its members over the members of other 'tribes'.
I guess this is similar to Pendragon's response. Of course I am no expert in this field, however the above is my opinion nonetheless. |
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| ArezList |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| So can I say that "Patriotic" is a unclear feeling that can drive people insane for their home countries, and because peopel aim to protect the nation, so no one will still question too much, is that it? |
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| Twixly |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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I feel Patrionism is a highly missguided feeling.
To be perfectly honest it should be Humanism, we as a spieces are one - and THAT is what we should take pride in and strive to improve.
Patrionism for me is like Religion. A forced habit. |
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| Cat1981(England) |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2006
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Just to add another reason to Pendragons two. I was born in Australia but mainly grew up in Britain. When we were growing up we (family) travelled a fair amount which is something that i still do to a lesser extent today. Having a sense of where home is was something of a linchpin or anchor for me, this has grown into a patriotic feeling for Britain and England. I am convinced that most people follow religion for the same reason, to give a certain structure to their lives.
| Twixly wrote: |
I feel Patrionism is a highly missguided feeling.
To be perfectly honest it should be Humanism, we as a spieces are one - and THAT is what we should take pride in and strive to improve.
Patrionism for me is like Religion. A forced habit. |
Patriotism has probably caused more wars, deaths, pain and suffering etc than religion, racism or any other of mans bad ideas combined. But it does have it's good points too, take chinas recent rise for example. China is trying to turn itself into the biggest economy in the world right now and has been for 30 odd years. During the last 30 years more people then at any other time in history have been raised above the poverty line in China because of their desire to compete with the USA and other rich country's.
Also patriotism can over come many of our other social ills such as ethnic, racial and religious discrimination, especially with increasingly larger numbers of immigrants. It doesn't matter that Amir Khan is a Muslim or that Monty Panesar is a Sikh, they are both representing Britain or England.
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| RomanticSage |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Patriotism is probably nothing more than a specified group alignment, just a way to establish a feeling of belonging and similarity within a group, with a sense of security as to the topics and morality/ethics that will be brought up within that group. In other words, just another way to bundle up with friends you know, who won't challenge you too much because you agree on most of the same things, and be comfortable and correct for a time. Just what it is you are all agreeing on, such as: politics, art, TV show, etc, is just the group's alignment. Hmmm....yes...maybe.... 
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| Highball |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| RomanticSage wrote: |
| Patriotism is probably nothing more than a specified group alignment, just a way to establish a feeling of belonging and similarity within a group, with a sense of security as to the topics and morality/ethics that will be brought up within that group. In other words, just another way to bundle up with friends you know, who won't challenge you too much because you agree on most of the same things, and be comfortable and correct for a time. Just what it is you are all agreeing on, such as: politics, art, TV show, etc, is just the group's alignment. Hmmm....yes...maybe.... |
I have to agree with that... I've been a serviceman for 18 years, and not because of the money  My 'patriotism' is a sense of duty to the 'tribe' that I belong to... As the attitude of the tribe changes through cultural integration as a result of the reduction in barriers to social or economic migration, so the nature of my tribe changes. Right now the importance of the role I play is becoming less and less valued by the group as opposed to the group's feelings about the matter over the period 1939-45 when everyone was concerned with the defence of the nation. Different times, political climates create different attitudes to patriotism - perhaps we could ask Maslow what he thinks about it??! 
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| ArezList |
| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I don't deny any of you opinions.
One more question: Why those who are NOT patriotic are often strenuous looked down uopn and even descriminated by ohters in the countries....... it seems that in your opinion to be patriotic is an optioal "obligation" (or what ever you call it) and wether you take it or not is all up to you......... still confused. 99% of the people are patriotic. But that does not necessarily mean the left 1% should be questioned.....
I feel there're so many thing unclear in the world, but so many people still followed, including my parents. I don't wanna make my parents and other people angry, but there're reallly sonething can't be bypassed. |
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| kojax |
| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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| Highball wrote: |
| RomanticSage wrote: |
| Patriotism is probably nothing more than a specified group alignment, just a way to establish a feeling of belonging and similarity within a group, with a sense of security as to the topics and morality/ethics that will be brought up within that group. In other words, just another way to bundle up with friends you know, who won't challenge you too much because you agree on most of the same things, and be comfortable and correct for a time. Just what it is you are all agreeing on, such as: politics, art, TV show, etc, is just the group's alignment. Hmmm....yes...maybe.... |
I have to agree with that... I've been a serviceman for 18 years, and not because of the money My 'patriotism' is a sense of duty to the 'tribe' that I belong to... As the attitude of the tribe changes through cultural integration as a result of the reduction in barriers to social or economic migration, so the nature of my tribe changes. Right now the importance of the role I play is becoming less and less valued by the group as opposed to the group's feelings about the matter over the period 1939-45 when everyone was concerned with the defence of the nation. Different times, political climates create different attitudes to patriotism - perhaps we could ask Maslow what he thinks about it??! |
When territorial war was a constantly looming reality, you either had to be part of a team or you would get stepped on. It's a lot like cliques in High School. And, if you're going to be part of a team, it's easiest to be part of a team that shares your language and culture. Then you know what the rules of interaction are, at least.
The nuclear bomb has basically made the idea of genuine inter-territorial war into a joke, at least for the nuclear powers. It ruined the need for a team, and therefore a lot of the need for a common identity.
I think service people feel it the hardest, because they get under-appreciated. If we'd task them with a better role on the other hand, they might enjoy all the prestige they once did.
Imagine: what if the USA actually became a force for order in the world, instead of just another sower of chaos? |
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