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| Why do christians |
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| Pikkhaud |
 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Why do christians |
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Why do christians tend to quote the good things in the old testemant, but when an atheist aurguments with so of the stuff there about how crule and wicked the christian god is, christians always tell you that jesus disbanned the old testament.
So why can christians use the old testament but not atheist?
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Because... arr... What?!
Atheists still point Christians to the bible to points which strenghten
their own points...
For example; an atheist can point out the flood chapter
to say that god is a "learning being" and things alike... 
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you rather they still believed in all the cruel stuff? |
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| verzen |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
| Would you rather they still believed in all the cruel stuff? |
Yes, then I wouldn't feel so bad for hating the person because of his religion because the person himself would be a jack ass. =P |
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Hypocrisy abounds. Christians often times ask: Where - if not from the bible - do you get your moral values from? As if I need some fairy tale to see the difference between wrong and right. And when you point out the nasty parts in the bible and what a revengful, egocentric, homophobic and mysogynistic god they actually worship they're fast to point out that Jesus set all things straight. How can that be as the trinty states they are both (plus the holy spirit, whoever this guy might be in the first place  )are on entity. So no reversal, god still means what he/she/it stated in the old testament whith all the killing of the firstborn Egyptians (so how could HE have possibly done this when even in the christain thoery of everything a child that has not been baptized but born to christain parents is per se innocent and goes straight to heaven. Are the Egyptians less worthy of HIS mercy?? Obviously HE does not treat them as human beeings) and slaughtering men, women and children during and after battles for the higher glory of their god. So they pick whatever they like from this book, discard the rest and get on your nerves with their (officially legitimized by the church BTW) homo- and xenophobic worldviews and that god loves you but if you do not love him back you WILL burn in hell........YAAAAWN.
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
| Would you rather they still believed in all the cruel stuff? |
You have to admit it would be a relief if they admitted to NOT believing in the Old Testament stuff any longer - thanks to the redemptive power of the Christ and the new agreement that God, through him, has worked out for humanity.
But as Pikkhaud points out, some Christians try to win both sides of the argument.
Not all, it is true - I have never seen you attempt that, for instance - but it can be frustrating.  |
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| BumFluff |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: |
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so since Jesus Christ is God's incarnation or whatever on Earth and in material form then he's arguing with himself and he made a deal with himself for mans well being?
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Exactly..........but the theists will certainly come up with some crappy argument like: "MY GOD does not need to subject to YOUR judgement" or somesuch nonsense. Pointless exercise.
On the 6th day god created man. In the 7th day man returned this favour.
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| free radical |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Why do christians |
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| Pikkhaud wrote: |
Why do christians tend to quote the good things in the old testemant, but when an atheist aurguments with so of the stuff there about how crule and wicked the christian god is, christians always tell you that jesus disbanned the old testament.
So why can christians use the old testament but not atheist? |
Presumably because the 'good things' largely stay consistent between the old and new testament. |
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| Pikkhaud |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
| Would you rather they still believed in all the cruel stuff? |
Yes, then I could actually respect the person to accept all angles of his/hers religion and views.
Which makes his/hers arguments more interessting to read, cause he/she had to find new arguments and an mor interessting disscusion rather then just coming with the same old crap about Jesus dissbaned the laws of the old testement.
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems you have come on the forum to complain that Christians believe as they believe and not as you do. Is that about the extent of it? |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
| It seems you have come on the forum to complain that Christians believe as they believe and not as you do. Is that about the extent of it? |
I would think he's trying to point out that christians don't believe in what they should believe.
But of course, it could be argued that that is his belief.
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"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Why do christians |
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| Pikkhaud wrote: |
Why do christians tend to quote the good things in the old testemant, but when an atheist aurguments with so of the stuff there about how crule and wicked the christian god is, christians always tell you that jesus disbanned the old testament.
...
Which makes his/hers arguments more interessting to read, cause he/she had to find new arguments and an mor interessting disscusion rather then just coming with the same old crap about Jesus dissbaned the laws of the old testement. |
What do Jews say to you when you point out how wicked and cruel their God is? |
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| daytonturner |
| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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So what is it that you folks thinks Christians believe or don't believe about the Old Testiment?
Personally, I believe that the events described there happened. I'm not sure, however, which events you claim show God's cruelty. Especially, in view of the fact that you call these stories fairy tales.
(You do, I hope, realize that fairly tales were usually based on real people and events being cloaked in symbolism. Little Miss Muffet, Mary quite contrary, Humpty Dumpty, Little Tommy Tucker, Jack and Jill, Little Boy Blue, Jack Horner and their fairy tale siblings represented actual people and events. These stories no more appeared out of thin air than did the Bible.)
If the Bible stories are fairy tales and not true, then they cannot show a cruel God, since the events you say show God to be cruel did not happen.
If on the other hand, they are true, then it would seem you would understand how offended God was and how drastically he is capable of dealing with sin and disobedience.
In the latter case, an understanding of how serious God is about these things, it would seem you would prefer the forgiveness offered in salvation through Jesus Christ.
You do have a choice. You can face the God of wrath as shown in the Old Testament or you can receive His mercy by believing in your heart and confessing that Jesus is Lord.
As the New Testament says (Heb. 10:31): "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hand sof the living God."
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| daytonturner wrote: |
Personally, I believe that the events described there happened. I'm not sure, however, which events you claim show God's cruelty. Especially, in view of the fact that you call these stories fairy tales. |
Leviticus, Chapter 1.)
"He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord .
Nice, HE likes his animals torn to shreds while still alive and also likes the smell of burning flesh. A fifteen year old male with the same behaviour nowadays would earn himself an appointment at the shrink's office.
Cruel??? Noooooooooooooooo
1 Corinthians 14.)
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
So put up or shut up for the chicks and if they have questions they have to ask their MASTER and swallow whatever his oppinion is. Well, I guess this is against the constitution in all civilized countries.
Mysogynistic?? Aaaaaabsoooooluuuutely NOT!!
Exodus 12, 28.)
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.
Bloodthirsty?? NEVER!!
Jeremiah 49, 20.)
Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and the purposes which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be appalled at their fate.
Hmmmmmm, why does this remind me of the time between 1939 and 1945, just they people committing atrocities wore different uniforms.
Disgusting?? GOD ordered it, it can't be disgusting!!
Here's one of my favourites:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open
Jeffry Dahmer could not have been more vicious, disgusting and sociopathic than this one, don't you think? Just because the all-loving, mild-mannered and all forgiving god is pissed off as the Samaritans don't give a flying old-rat's tushy about HIM - the megalomaniacal prick - their newborns have to be slaughtered and pregnant women sliced to pieces in oder to prevent them from giving birth to potential new enemies? The SS under the leadership of Heinrich Himmler argumented along the same line of thought, let's kill them all and not let a single one escape unless they come back and avenge their parents. And this was an actual speech given by Himmler in front of a large audience of an SS-school and actually survived as taped speech.
Auntie Edit seeezzz: I almost forgot about this precious little gem, the story of Jephtha's daughter. If the god you worship (no matter what kinda flavour of the trinity you preferr most) really is cool with this (and there is no evidence in the bible to the contrary) then you think that George Bush is an intelligent, honest human beeing. Let's check this out,shall we:
Then the spirit of Yahweh came upon Jephthah and he passed through Gilead and Manaseh… Jephthah made this vow to Yahweh: 'If thou will deliver the Amonites into my hands, then the first creature that comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return from them in peace shall be given to Yahweh; I will offer that as a whole-offering.' So Jephthah crossed over to attack the Ammonites, and Yahweh delivered them into his hands… But when Jephthah came to his house in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him with tambourines and dances but his daughter, and she his only child… When he saw her he rented his clothes and said, 'Alas, my daughter, you have broken my heart… I have made a vow to Yahweh and I cannot go back.' She replied, 'Father, you have made a vow to Yahweh; do to me what you have solemnly vowed, since Yahweh has avenged you on the Ammonites, your enemies. But, father, grant me this one favor. For two months let me be, that I may roam the hills with my companions and mourn that I must die a virgin.' … At the end of two months she came back to her father, and he fulfilled the vow he had made; she died a virgin. [New English Bible, modified]
Ever heard of projectile vomiting? I know, I know, this is just metaphorical to show the devotion of Jephtha to his god and has NOTHING to do with this delusional sheep shagger killing his only child (and no excuses like with Abraham and stopping short of killing HIS firstborn son) for the higher glory of a devine beeing. And keep in mind he swapped the life of his daughter for the lifes of several hundreds if not thousands of enemies.
What an all-loving, all-forgiving, not the least bit jealous or moronic devine authority.
So you use THIS book as a moral guideline?? Holy shit 
But no wonder, I mean the only persons god spared in Sodom or Ghomorra were Lot and his daughters who: "......left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father"
And those were the ones god likes to spare from fire and brimstone, the "moral" ones? The daughters deliberately get their father shitfaced so they can have sexual intercourse with him? Can you spell disfunctional family?
| daytonturner wrote: |
If the Bible stories are fairy tales and not true, then they cannot show a cruel God, since the events you say show God to be cruel did not happen.
If on the other hand, they are true, then it would seem you would understand how offended God was and how drastically he is capable of dealing with sin and disobedience.
In the latter case, an understanding of how serious God is about these things, it would seem you would prefer the forgiveness offered in salvation through Jesus Christ.
You do have a choice. You can face the God of wrath as shown in the Old Testament or you can receive His mercy by believing in your heart and confessing that Jesus is Lord. |
Now we are down to cherry-picking again. Take the things you like and toss out or ignore the things you don't like. Does not work as the old-testament god is identical with Jesus, no difference. Damn trinity! Leaves you no choice but than accepting both parts of the fairy tale stories. They can't be ripped apart and then re-assembled to make your own little pick-n-choose religion.
As you stated above, even fairy tales have a realistic background so I guess this is the mindset of the old testament and the worldviews of the tribes worshipping this atrocity called "good Lord". Let's kill them all, let god sort them out. Now that's something the born-again christians love. Especially when it gives them an excuse to bomb the shit out of the civilian population in some backwater country, nay?
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