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| KALSTER |
 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Ways to kill a virus |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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Location: South Africa
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I don't know if this thread will survive for too long, but I have always wondered about a way to kill virusses. A virus is, simply put, a protein capsule with some DNA or RNA inside? Is this protein capsule somewhat crystal like? If so, what do you think the resonance frequency would be?
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| Chemboy |
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Ways to kill a virus |
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Forum Ph.D.
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| KALSTER wrote: |
| I don't know if this thread will survive for too long, but I have always wondered about a way to kill virusses. A virus is, simply put, a protein capsule with some DNA or RNA inside? Is this protein capsule somewhat crystal like? If so, what do you think the resonance frequency would be? |
Not to shoot down your idea, but I don't think that's really feasible... One way to kill a virus (though this doesn't go as well if the virus is actually inside its host, because it's bad for the host) is simply to heat it up enough, because the proteins will denature. And then along the same denaturation lines, you could also increase or decrease pH, that would screw up its protein conformations as well.
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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| I don't think that's really feasible |
Is it because it is not really a crystal lattice configuration? Or it's not rigid enough to be damaged? Or that we can't produce a sound at the resonance frequency? Are there similar proteins in our bodies that would get damaged as well? I know it's a harebrained idea, I just always wondered about it.
Maybe another possibility would be make some kind of dialysis machine and treat the blood outside of the body?
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| free radical |
| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Viruses come in all shapes and sizes. Some insert their DNA into our DNA, and replicate safely from there. Although their progeny may have crystallized protein coats, killing those would not do anything to the viral mother ship, integrated into the host genome and existing only as DNA.
There are other issues to consider. For example, every viral species (not really appropriate to call them species but you understand) has its own coat protein. the resonance for one would not necessarily work for another.
The physics of the question is beyond me, but I would assume that the resonance would be altered as it travelled through tissues of different densities and so on. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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| Quote: |
| Viruses come in all shapes and sizes. Some insert their DNA into our DNA, and replicate safely from there. Although their progeny may have crystallized protein coats, killing those would not do anything to the viral mother ship, integrated into the host genome and existing only as DNA. |
Yes. The virus enters the cell and hijacks it's DNA to produce copies of itself, but eventually the cell bursts open, releasing the virusses and killing the cell. And we only have virusses again. It is these fully formed virusses with their protein coats on, that I'm interested in.
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| There are other issues to consider. For example, every viral species (not really appropriate to call them species but you understand) has its own coat protein. the resonance for one would not necessarily work for another. |
Well sure, but if you want to kill a particular virus, you produce that particular sound and thats all that's needed.
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| The physics of the question is beyond me, but I would assume that the resonance would be altered as it travelled through tissues of different densities and so on. |
Ok, so then one could make a machine that can treat the blood outside of the body.
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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Can this thread be moved to biology, mods? or do you think it fits better here. The thing is, noone seem to come in here very often 
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| free radical |
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| KALSTER wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Viruses come in all shapes and sizes. Some insert their DNA into our DNA, and replicate safely from there. Although their progeny may have crystallized protein coats, killing those would not do anything to the viral mother ship, integrated into the host genome and existing only as DNA. |
Yes. The virus enters the cell and hijacks it's DNA to produce copies of itself, but eventually the cell bursts open, releasing the virusses and killing the cell. And we only have virusses again. |
This is not the case.
Some viruses (particularly bacterial viruses) behave in the manner you describe. Other viruses, such as HIV, do not. For one thing, the viral genome remains integrated in the cell's genome. For another, the viral progeny bud out of the cell, they do not lyse the cell.
If you read through the life cycle on this image, you may see what I mean.
Another difficulty with your proposal is that viruses are not always constrained to the blood. Google lymphatic system, for example. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Ok then, damn. Thanks for your patience!
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Vindication!
I found this: http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0303089 
It seems that at least a few experiments of this type have been carried out. Also after doing some searching, I also found that there have even been patents already awarded to scientists doing research into the acoustic resonance of virus capsids! Even if some viruses turn out to be invulnerable to this type of treatment, it could still be useful against other viruses.
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| tkkenyon |
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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2% bleach solution kills classical viruses. Prions require formaldehyde plus autoclave.
TK
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TK Kenyon
Author of RABID: A Novel "What begins as a riff on Peyton Place smoothly metamorphoses into a philosophical battle between science and religion. …Kenyon creates four very subtle and intriguing central characters. A novel quite unlike most standard commercial fare, a genre-bending story--part thriller, part literary slapdown with dialogue as the weapon of choice that makes us laugh, wince, and reflect all at the same time. Kenyon is definitely a keeper.” --Booklist Starred Review.
Author of CALLOUS: A Novel, May, 2008 |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| Holmes |
| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| CShark |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| tkkenyon wrote: |
2% bleach solution kills classical viruses. Prions require formaldehyde plus autoclave.
TK |
Actually, the best virus killer is soap. Much more effective than bleach, as soap breaks down the lipid layer as well as the protein coat. Hypochlorite (bleach) is used primarily for capsular bacteria: 70% ethanol is used to disinfect bench tops in micro lab; bleach is too harsh for both the staff and the staph (sorry, just came out that way!). |
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