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| So why do we talk things out in our own head? |
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| (In)Sanity |
 Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: So why do we talk things out in our own head? |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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I assume it's not just me, but I was wondering why people talk things out in their mind (as in spoken words) instead of just spiting out actions. I know for myself sleep appears to play a factor in just how verbal I am in my own head. Fortunately I don't answer myself or have a 3rd person point of view.
It almost appears that our thought process is somewhat limited to a language barrier. I sometimes find visualizing an idea will result in faster results then trying to "talk" my way through it. Speed readers from what I understand learn to not speak to themselves as they read, something I've not really mastered. One has to wonder if the rate a culture can develop has anything to do with the language they speak. Do different people in different professions internally verbalize to different degrees?
It's all just kind of weird. |
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| sploit |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Inner monologue, the technical term for Internal verbalization, is built in to each and every person. I do not understand how this works, nor will I pretend I do. But I assume it is there to be our concious-self.
You said you have a hard time with an idea if you do not have words for it. This was actually a very big issue in psychology for many years. I forgot the names of the psychologist's involved, but one's theory stated that:
"if we do not posess the language to express a thought, we can not have that thought."
The other theory uses a culture in New Guinea (?), who only have two words for color, "light" and "dark". However they are still able to see and visualize the entire color spectrum. This was used to disprove the first theory stated.
Inner monologue is heavily used to help us role-play. We act out situations in our head, if they ever come up, we now have a construct on how to manage them. In this manner, inner monologue reduces spontanaeity and leaves us with predictable behavior. Inner monologue is also how our dreams occur. Inner monologue is a very important part of all of us. I do not know if we would be able to survive without it, because we would not be able to communicate our feelings and thoughts to ourselves to process. |
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| (In)Sanity |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Very interesting. I actually just tried an experiment of reading while playing back a song I like in my head, I was able to voice over the music, kind of weird and I can't say I've tried it before. It would be good to explore a bit more in order to get a more multitasking self. I'm one who's all for self modification. I gained control of my dreams years ago and now can dream what I want when I want, and never wake up because of a dream. I also dream in full color. I've heard some people dream in black and white. Now if I can just learn to not let stupid drivers upset me.
What about visual thought where you take an idea and convert it into a picture or 3D model. I've always been able to "build" pretty much anything in my mind without a single word spoken, I have to wonder what research has been done on this area. I find this method often allows me to solve complex problems sometimes without even being aware I'm doing so, I'm sure other do the same, they come up with a snap answer that was never verbalized or walked through in their head. |
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| HomoUniversalis |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| (In)Sanity wrote: |
Very interesting. I actually just tried an experiment of reading while playing back a song I like in my head, I was able to voice over the music, kind of weird and I can't say I've tried it before. It would be good to explore a bit more in order to get a more multitasking self. I'm one who's all for self modification. I gained control of my dreams years ago and now can dream what I want when I want, and never wake up because of a dream. I also dream in full color. I've heard some people dream in black and white. Now if I can just learn to not let stupid drivers upset me.
What about visual thought where you take an idea and convert it into a picture or 3D model. I've always been able to "build" pretty much anything in my mind without a single word spoken, I have to wonder what research has been done on this area. I find this method often allows me to solve complex problems sometimes without even being aware I'm doing so, I'm sure other do the same, they come up with a snap answer that was never verbalized or walked through in their head. |
I remember a few psychologists who wrote about it. They described creating a mansion, in which to keep all the memories. In a sense, archiving one's memories, and remembering them is creating a picture or a 3D model. Also, if you are able to create a lucid dream, why not create your models there  .
Inner monologue. One of the most interesting parts of psychology to be sure, as it is also one of the most mystifying sides. For some reason the ability to reason has led to quite some religious and scientific controversy. After all, how can a brain, matter, create something as complex and surreal as a thought? Personally, I believe that all the processes in our mind are engineered by the brain.
As mentioned before, they are intented (potraying it as a biological function) to analyse thing, to process them. No language? I do believe that would be the truth, but a person without a languauge would create a language, and would still be able to describe things in a 'literal' sense. Colours, images are a whole different matter. Personally, I feel that if someone had never seen the color blue, he would not be able to imagine blue. However, if he ever saw a tree, and linked it in his mind to the word 'Boo', I believe it is very likely that after a few generations someone will discover gravity by an apple falling down. If someone does not posses a language, they will create it. I love that 1984 quote, yet I do not believe it to be correct.
Why do we possess inner monologue? Personally, I believe we exist on this world to ensure our own survival, and that of our species. I believe this behaviour has been programmed into us genetically, according to Darwin's law (a species with basic survival-instincts will statistically survive a species without, if this is unclear, I will describe Darwin more detailed).
I believe that every behaviour, including our inner monologue (I classify it as behaviour also, along with heart-beat and breathing rhytms and the like) is intented to improve our survival and the survival of the species.
In our behaviour, I believe, lies the root of survival: The Alpha-male (the dominant male) will get most females, and will thus, statistically, have the largest off-spring. Thus, if that dominant male has genetical advantages, he will spread them more than a non-dominant male.
From this I deduct that we do not have a Wille zur Macht as Nietzsche claimed, but rather a will to become the dominant male in a group, and have as much offspring as possible. I also believe, however, that our behaviour is not that easily classified as it is for a tiger.
If a person picks up the phone, it can not be as easily deduced as when a tiger hunts for a prey. I believe that the core of the behaviour, and the original cause is the same, however. How do people define success in life?
Do not fall to easily for being happy. Many people will say that money does not make happy, but rather love. Both cases, however, are elementary in a life. Without money, no food, without love, no off-spring. Finding a job, acquiring food, acquiring territory, acquiring a female, protecting her, creating offspring, protecting them; I believe them to be the primary drifts and the primary causes for human behaviour.
Inner monologue, I believe, is simply a result of such behaviour. To be able to properly respond to our environment and to survive, we need to be able to adapt to it. Inner monologue was, through Darwin's law, born.
Mr U
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| 2112 |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I have thought before about this. About how if I spoke Portugese as a first language, would I think in Portugese? Yes, I probably would, because most of the time I hear English in my mind.
I also watched a show about the human child (can't remember the name of it) on the Discovery Channel a few months ago. They measured babies brainwaves while playing tapes of their native language and then a foreign language. The outcome was that newborn babies are more comfortable when hearing the native language of their parents than the foreign language. But it went further, to play tapes of the inflections in the native and foreign languages, and the results were the same. I guess we're programmed from the time we're in utero to learn the language our parents speak. It is as if we begin to learn our language before we're even born.
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| HomoUniversalis |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| 2112 wrote: |
I have thought before about this. About how if I spoke Portugese as a first language, would I think in Portugese? Yes, I probably would, because most of the time I hear English in my mind.
I also watched a show about the human child (can't remember the name of it) on the Discovery Channel a few months ago. They measured babies brainwaves while playing tapes of their native language and then a foreign language. The outcome was that newborn babies are more comfortable when hearing the native language of their parents than the foreign language. But it went further, to play tapes of the inflections in the native and foreign languages, and the results were the same. I guess we're programmed from the time we're in utero to learn the language our parents speak. It is as if we begin to learn our language before we're even born. |
I do not suppose that is impossible. After all, the child is incapsuled in a liquid. Thought it is well-protected from heavy shocks, I guess it is possible that sounds are audible to the child. Interesting research that, if you find a book, or essay, I would love to read it .
Mr U
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| (In)Sanity |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| So the big question is does my Golden Retriever talk to herself in dog tongue. If humans have an inner voice what about animals? |
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| sploit |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Isn't that what separates us from the animals? The ability to think and reason? Animals are driven by instincts. |
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| (In)Sanity |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| sploit wrote: |
| Isn't that what separates us from the animals? The ability to think and reason? Animals are driven by instincts. |
I don't know, my dog pouts when we discipline her, gets all excited and demanding when she thinks we are going to play with the laser in the yard, overall exhibits emotional responses. I'm just not 100% sold on the instinct theory, what instinct would make a dog demand to be played with, and then become sad and depressed looking when it doesn't happen? I think our religious beliefs often lead us to believe animals only work on instinct. I've just noticed more evidence to suggest some form of thought process goes on at some level. |
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| sploit |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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There may be a mild thought process in animals. However they can not communicate the way fully grown humans do. A baby will cry and make different noises and cry in different ways for different things. My cat meows different ways for different things. They are driven on instincts and the need to survive. They don't go around having abstract thoughts and creating art.
Why do animals enjoy physical contact, well now there I'm stumped. I guess it's one of the mysteries of nature (or maybe psychologists know, either way, I don't). |
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| 2112 |
| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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The emotional part of the brain of a cat is more like that of a human than a dog's is. I'll have to look it up, that and the babies hearing in the womb thing, HU.
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| HomoUniversalis |
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| sploit wrote: |
| Isn't that what separates us from the animals? The ability to think and reason? Animals are driven by instincts. |
Actually, I tried to disprove that in my first post here. I believe all creatures are driven my instincts, the need to survive and the need to preserve the species.
2112, I automatically presumed that was the solution. I am aware of people believing there is an unconscious collectiveness in humans, but I much prefer to seek the explanation a bit closer to home .
Mr U
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Last edited by HomoUniversalis on Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| sploit |
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Do animals even have a cerebral cortex? |
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| HomoUniversalis |
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| sploit wrote: |
| Do animals even have a cerebral cortex? |
Sure. The only difference between our brain, and that of animals is the amount of 'wrinkles' in the brain, and the size  .
Mr U
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| (In)Sanity |
| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:43 am Post subject: |
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I could get into discussions of clairvoyance of which I have first hand experience with, however that would be getting into the realm of the supernatural, something science really can't explain and often tries to discredit.
I sometimes have to wonder if The Matrix was just a movie or a clue |
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