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| CuriousOrange |
 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Science-Based Scottish Paranormal Investigation Group |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Edinburgh
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Hi science people! I feel so out of place here.
Sorry if this has been discussed before (I've searched around but couldn't find anthing so specific). I'm a member of a paranormal investigation group operating in Scotland, which relies on (pseudo-)scientific investigation methods rather than subjective tosh like mediums.
While some members of the team are content to rely on the usual gizmos like an EMF meter in the style of all the other paranormal groups in the world, I keep my distance from such things through a basic hatred of my own ignorance. I couldn't use equipment if I didn't know what it was I was looking for, that would be pointless, and I suppose my main aim with the group is to branch out and explore original and creative avenues based around (admittedly flimsy) scientific methods.
It's also part of my larger goal to eradicate all superstition and comfortable religious beliefs in the entire planet, so that everyone can go to their graves feeling empty, scared and alone, but that will also hopefully help to stop people screwing up the world quite so much in the name of a higher power that obviously doesn't exist.
This is why all of the experiments I've suggested since joining have essentially been cheap kid's toys, as I'm not prepared to spend money on daft equipment that will tell us nothing just because it's the "in" thing for the paranormal investigator's toolkit. It probably helps our scepticism that I don't even believe in ghosts, as it means I'm even more keen to seek out the rational explanations and help to debunk this whole ghost thing. Or better still, prove it correct: imagine that.
None of us claim to be scientists - especially not me, and I'm the group's self-appointed lab boy - but that's part of the appeal for me, as it means our creativity isn't hindered by logic and basic common sense. Obviously, this also presents a bit of a problem.
So I'm basically here to throw around any ideas and to hopefully get feedback on experiment ideas, and to receive your inevitable abuse about how what we're doing is pointless, and can't possibly be expected to yield results. It's okay; I already know this, but it's a fun hobby to have as it means I get to explore loads of ace ruins and derelict buildings with my friends for free.
Wow, sorry for the long post. My others will be more specific. |
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: London
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Weclome, CuriousOrange. Let's hope the people on this forum can assist you. There is a separate Introductions section if you'd like to use that, as well as separate sections on Pseudo-science and Experimentation. Either of those might be useful too.
I suspect that your questions or suggestions will be well received here as long as they do not make assumptions of existence regarding non-scientific phenomena, but simply ask about plausibility and empirical evidence.  |
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| CircularlyPolarized |
| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Right here! Hello!
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Experiments to (dis)prove the paranormal is always interesting to hear; unfortunately the paranormal community seems to have troubles coming up with predictions that can be tested scientifically.
Anyway, it's great to see a sceptic involved in this field. I'm looking forwards to hearing of your ideas for experiments 
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...Wait, what? |
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| Cjh |
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Science-Based Scottish Paranormal Investigation Group |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
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| CuriousOrange wrote: |
Hi science people! I feel so out of place here.
While some members of the team are content to rely on the usual gizmos like an EMF meter in the style of all the other paranormal groups in the world, I keep my distance from such things through a basic hatred of my own ignorance. I couldn't use equipment if I didn't know what it was I was looking for, that would be pointless, and I suppose my main aim with the group is to branch out and explore original and creative avenues based around (admittedly flimsy) scientific methods.
It's also part of my larger goal to eradicate all superstition and comfortable religious beliefs in the entire planet, so that everyone can go to their graves feeling empty, scared and alone, but that will also hopefully help to stop people screwing up the world quite so much in the name of a higher power that obviously doesn't exist.
This is why all of the experiments I've suggested since joining have essentially been cheap kid's toys, as I'm not prepared to spend money on daft equipment that will tell us nothing just because it's the "in" thing for the paranormal investigator's toolkit. |
Good starting post CO.
The problems associated with gadgets such as EMF's and NID's are many fold - from the basic tenets of how they work and the applications to which they are put - to the methodolodogy of usage in the field.
There is absolutely no proven link between the paranormal and the fields measured by the everyday EMF meter so commonly seen, and the same is true of the NID. There is however evidence emerging from the MADS experiments regarding weak complex magnetic fields (which are too feeble to be detected by the above) producing hallucinatory effects.
all we have is belief and the manufacturers sales pitch that they work - this is not science no matter how many times the individuals shout "We are being Scientific"
Usage of the instruments also leaves a lot to be desired, for it is highly unscientific to wander around holding the meter in the hand and get excited when it reads something...Science is about laws through repeatable experiments, holding things in the hand to take measurements is far too subjective to have any meaning.
then we come to the Holy Grail of many in this field....the base line tests - the use of untested and dubious equipment by means of walking around and taking a one off reading which is assumed to mean something - in this case a state of normality...what tosh. again pseudo science being used to make what these individuals are doing look scientific.
before I get abuse hurled at me ....I am a paranormal researcher of some standing and with over 30 years experience. I am just sick and tired of assumptions, beliefs and gullibility when what is needed is proper scientific experimentation.
fortunately there are voices of reason in the paranormal community with ASSAP and PSI.
and no I am not really one for mediums either so don't feel out of place.
cheers
Chris |
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| BumFluff |
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Canada
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Welcome to the forums both newcomers that have posted here. Actually the paranormal has intrigued me for quite some time, actually longer than I care to acknowledge (Or remember for that matter). I always enjoy a good book about ghost or things but I've always been curious as to what exactly they are measuring with the various instruments they use and why it always gets cold (evidentally) when spirits or ghosts are around.
I've actually been in discussions on these boards before concerning theories of apparitions and what they could be. Perhaps ripples in time? Perhaps the matter surrounding takes in certain types of energy from it's surroundings and plays it back at a later time.
Though I doubt you'll ever disprove the paranormal or disprove religion. You can't prove a negative meaning you can't prove that soemthign, whether it be God or ghosts, does not exist. But still I wish you luck.
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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell |
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| Cjh |
| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
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hi Bumfluff
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I've always been curious as to what exactly they are measuring with the various instruments they use and why it always gets cold (evidentally) when spirits or ghosts are around. |
"It always gets cold" is yet another assumption based upon very little evidence and rather too much Gothic horror and Hammer films I'm afraid. The most common sighting would be one where a figure is seen which acts absolutely normally and is assumed to be a fellow human being alive and well - right up to the point where it does something completely abnormal ie: vanishing or walking through a wall being typical cases.
The idea of the coldness led manufacturers to produce the Negative Ion Detector for the would be Ghost Hunter to follow a cold trail of negative Ions which (based on nothing more than at best a hypothesis) apparitions might exude. There has been no such correlation as far as I am aware.
This coldness idea has also led to an increase in sales of infra red laser thermometers - the latest gizmo in the arsenal. Unfortunately nobody seems to have explained that these need a surface to reflect the beam back off to get a reading of the temperature, and so for the purposes of the measurement of a potentially paranormal cold spot located 3 feet in the air they are useless.[/quote]
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Chocks away Ginger... |
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