| Religion and Politics don't mix |
| agree |
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54% |
[ 6 ] |
| don't agree |
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45% |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
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Just ask henry the 8th!
I just wrote a short article on this topic here:
http://searchwarp.com/swa351044.htm
So have a read and let me know what your response is to my view.
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| prasit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
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In reality, they certainly do.
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Einstein is not always right. |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| prasit wrote: |
| In reality, they certainly do. |
Then elaborate and demonstrate your point.
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'Time is the space between birth and death' by me. |
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Creative Blogger wrote: |
| Candidates who are religious would be wise to try not to let their beliefs affect their decision making. For example, should a Catholic Prime Minister/President decide to make abortion illegal the ramifications would be far reaching, despite the fact many of us believe this is immoral whether we be religious or not, we cannot legislate on a 'belief' when there are 'real life' factors which require serious consideration before any decision is made. |
That's impossible. People are going to legislate on their beliefs, whether they think said beliefs originate in a particular religion, evolution, out of thin air, or what. I think the US founding fathers had it right - there should be no established state religion. Beyond that, an attempt to limit people from exercising their belief is really establishment of atheism, which is no better.
It is quite possible for an atheist to believe that a fetus, let's say in the third trimester, is a person with a right to life. Is it okay for an atheist to support a ban on third trimester abortion, but not okay if that belief derives from or is attributed to, a religion? |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
It is quite possible for an atheist to believe that a fetus, let's say in the third trimester, is a person with a right to life. Is it okay for an atheist to support a ban on third trimester abortion, but not okay if that belief derives from or is attributed to, a religion? |
No it's not Ok
People should learn the facts then formulate an opinion based on their findings, anything less and they are merely 'sheep'.
I have a 'gut' feeling that makes me against abortion, but I would not make it illegal as my personal beliefs are not the most important thing, those affected by the decision are.
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'Time is the space between birth and death' by me. |
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Theoryofrelativity wrote: |
People should learn the facts then formulate an opinion based on their findings, anything less and they are merely 'sheep'.
I have a 'gut' feeling that makes me against abortion, but I would not make it illegal as my personal beliefs are not the most important thing, those affected by the decision are. |
There are no objective facts that will tell you if a baby is a human being 10 minutes before it is born, or 10 minutes after. Would you favor legalization of killing a 10 minute old baby, just because the parents are the ones most affected?
Let's try another example. There is a bill before the legislature to ban capital punishment. Politician A is a Christian who favors the bill, based on his pro-life views and the commandment Thou Shalt not Kill. Politician B is a Christian who opposes it based on the biblical Eye for and Eye philosophy. Politician C is an atheist who favors it because he feels capital punishment is just barbaric. Politician D is an atheist who opposes the bill because he thinks capital punishment is a good deterrent.
How should each politician vote? Should A and B abstain, because their views are based on religion? Perhaps D is the only one qualified to vote, because he is not using any moral judgement, just practical consideration? |
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
Perhaps D is the only one qualified to vote, because he is not using any moral judgement, just practical consideration? |
What and leave all the decisions to the most idiotic and self-delusional people because they believe such twaddle about themselves.
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
| Theoryofrelativity wrote: |
People should learn the facts then formulate an opinion based on their findings, anything less and they are merely 'sheep'.
I have a 'gut' feeling that makes me against abortion, but I would not make it illegal as my personal beliefs are not the most important thing, those affected by the decision are. |
There are no objective facts that will tell you if a baby is a human being 10 minutes before it is born, or 10 minutes after. Would you favor legalization of killing a 10 minute old baby, just because the parents are the ones most affected?
Let's try another example. There is a bill before the legislature to ban capital punishment. Politician A is a Christian who favors the bill, based on his pro-life views and the commandment Thou Shalt not Kill. Politician B is a Christian who opposes it based on the biblical Eye for and Eye philosophy. Politician C is an atheist who favors it because he feels capital punishment is just barbaric. Politician D is an atheist who opposes the bill because he thinks capital punishment is a good deterrent.
How should each politician vote? Should A and B abstain, because their views are based on religion? Perhaps D is the only one qualified to vote, because he is not using any moral judgement, just practical consideration? |
I believe in God, I believe in 'thou shalt not kill' but
I would like to see evil doers eradicated at the earliest opportunity. Death penalty is too kind. Free them to their victims families and be done with it.
Re the abortion debate, I was not only referring to the parents when I said 'those affected', I consider many factors and individuals on a global scale.
Religion should play zero part in these decisions. As you have demonstrated the religion is hypocritical so is NOT a reliable guide.
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Theoryofrelativity wrote: |
Religion should play zero part in these decisions. As you have demonstrated the religion is hypocritical so is NOT a reliable guide. |
Ah well that brings up an important distinction, because however inevitable that personal religious beliefs will play a role in an individuals decision it should not play a role on a public or organizational level. In other words, not only should organizations of religion have no government sanctioned authority in such matters but religious reasons really should not be used by public officials to justify their actions. It is inevitable that such beliefs will inspire their actions but when held to account such beliefs will certainly not be valid justification.
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See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com |
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Religion and politics just don't mix |
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| Theoryofrelativity wrote: |
Religion should play zero part in these decisions. As you have demonstrated the religion is hypocritical so is NOT a reliable guide. |
Okay, what is your reliable guide?
| mitchellmckain wrote: |
Ah well that brings up an important distinction, because however inevitable that personal religious beliefs will play a role in an individuals decision it should not play a role on a public or organizational level. In other words, not only should organizations of religion have no government sanctioned authority in such matters but religious reasons really should not be used by public officials to justify their actions. It is inevitable that such beliefs will inspire their actions but when held to account such beliefs will certainly not be valid justification. |
Are you saying it is all right for a politician to say "I oppose X because it is morally wrong" but not "I oppose X because it is sinful"?
What about "I oppose X because it is morally wrong, and oh by the way I am of Y faith which happens to also oppose X because it is sinful"? |
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| GUY |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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This message has been approved by politician D:
Greetings,
Theoryofrelativity we meet again.
Mitchellmckain you know how I feel.
and last but not least
Harold14370 quiet the mathematician.
I find myself being a “D” man. Religion should not be basis for political decisions. I do except the fact that the morals of some laws are barrowed from Christianity, but I am grateful that that’s as far as it goes.
Harold14370 wrote:
| Quote: |
| That's impossible. People are going to legislate on their beliefs, whether they think said beliefs originate in a particular religion, evolution, out of thin air, or what. |
As far as legislating on religious beliefs, I think there are those people that can surrender their beliefs and make a “what is good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander” decision.
Theoryofrelativity wrote:
| Quote: |
People should learn the facts then formulate an opinion based on their findings, anything less and they are merely 'sheep'.
I have a 'gut' feeling that makes me against abortion, but I would not make it illegal as my personal beliefs are not the most important thing, those affected by the decision are. |
You halfway surprise me and surprisingly I halfway agree. I applaud you for straying from the flock.
mitchellmckain wrote:
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What and leave all the decisions to the most idiotic and self-delusional people because they believe such twaddle about themselves.
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Dose this mean I can't vote anymore? |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Religion and politics are two separate things...
You can be religious and yet do political work, no problem. But you can't let your religious convictions control your political issues. Politics should be about everyone.
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You can't determine what's good and what's bad before you've seen both extremes. |
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| prasit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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theoryofrelativity wrote
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prasit wrote:
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| In reality, they certainly do. |
Then elaborate and demonstrate your point. |
Shariah law, for example.
If you mean Religion and Politics should not mix, then I am inclined to agree.
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Obviously wrote: |
But you can't let your religious convictions control your political issues. Politics should be about everyone. |
People keep saying that. I don't know what they mean. If somebody believes in something they would probably believe it is a good thing for everyone, wouldn't they? How should they act on that belief, in the political arena?
Recognizing that their belief is rooted in their religion, are they supposed to vote against what they believe, abstain from participation in government, or what? Give an example of how one would not let one's religion control one's political issues. |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Harold14370 wrote: |
People keep saying that. I don't know what they mean. If somebody believes in something they would probably believe it is a good thing for everyone, wouldn't they? How should they act on that belief, in the political arena?
Recognizing that their belief is rooted in their religion, are they supposed to vote against what they believe, abstain from participation in government, or what? Give an example of how one would not let one's religion control one's political issues. |
I admit it's quite difficult. The majority ultimately decides, even if that means that abortion will be made illegal, gay marriges banned or the execution of sharia law.
In my view a goverment should hold itself neutral in all matters and consider not only the majoritys' will, but the minorities as well. With a few laws which goes for everyone (don't kill, don't steal, etc) and the consideration of what everyone wants, to reach a compromise everyone can be happy with.
I guess that is impossible 
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You can't determine what's good and what's bad before you've seen both extremes. |
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