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| free radical |
 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Phoenix, Mars, water, the moon |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 503
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The rationale for Phoenix is that the water-ice/soil interface may be a zone where we will find indications (such as organic substances) of past life. Soil analyses are planned for samples through a depth horizon.
Water ice also exists on the moon, and I am curious if NASA has done similar analyses on the moon. I recall moon rocks being brought back some years ago, though these may not have been in the area of ice. The moon originated from the earth, so perhaps there is less compulsion to analyse the surface layers around the water ice.
I am curious for information along these lines? |
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| Dishmaster |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Junior
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 258
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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I doubt that Phoenix can really shed light on the question of life on Mars. At best, this probe will find ice and organic molecules. But this wouldn't be a strong surprise, because even open space contains vast amounts of organic molecules - and I doubt that anyone would assume life could have evolved in gas clouds. Don't get me wrong: it would be a great scientific achievement, but - as usual - hugely exaggerated and over-interpreted by NASA.
And concerning water ice on moon: I am afraid, the evidence is not as compelling as you think. Yes, there have been fancy press releases by NASA claiming to have found evidence for this, but the contradicting results were published in a not so fancy manner. Here is a site at NASA with a few links at the bottom of that page. |
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| free radical |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 503
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Which of the links say that there is no ice on the moon? The ones I visited all concur that ice is present.
Cheers
FR |
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| Dishmaster |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4632
Location: Scotland
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| Dishmaster wrote: |
| - and I doubt that anyone would assume life could have evolved in gas clouds.. |
Apart from me and Fred Hoyle.
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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| Dishmaster wrote: |
| I doubt that Phoenix can really shed light on the question of life on Mars. At best, this probe will find ice and organic molecules. |
It's going to dig down... capable of a meter or more if I'm not mistaken. The images alone are likely to intrigue us and shed light, as surface images did. How can we not learn from this?
I guess it'll be checking the lattice of ice samples, to learn how that ice formed. Good to know! |
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| Dishmaster |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Forum Junior
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 258
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Pong wrote: |
It's going to dig down... capable of a meter or more if I'm not mistaken. The images alone are likely to intrigue us and shed light, as surface images did. How can we not learn from this?
I guess it'll be checking the lattice of ice samples, to learn how that ice formed. Good to know! |
Yes, I totally agree. This is a scientific mission that will generate great results. But what I don't like is that the expected outcome is often exaggerated. NASA's public relation office has quite a reputation in that respect. This probe can only find organic molecules. This is far away from any statement regarding the possibility of life on Mars. |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1256
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| Dishmaster wrote: |
| This probe can only find organic molecules. |
...or with the scoop slice a worm in two and video the squirming end.  Well, you know what I mean. The value of pictures is difficult to state, but it's real enough. |
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| free radical |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 503
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Cheers for th e link. Sounds like the water may or may not be present.
| Quote: |
In a low-budget attempt to wring one last bit of
scientific productivity from the low-cost Lunar
Prospector mission, NASA worked with engineers and
astronomers at the University of Texas to precisely crash
the barrel-shaped spacecraft into a specific shadowed
crater. NASA accepted the team's proposal based on
successful scientific peer review of the idea and the
pending end of the spacecraft's useful life, although the
chances of positive detection of water were judged to be
less than 10 percent.
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Assuming it is present, have we done similar analyses on lunar samples as are being planned for Mars? Have we looked for biosignatures in the surface and immediate subsurface... if not, why not.
Cheers,
FR |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Because, unlike mars, the moon has never had any form of an atmosphere.
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âItâs no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.â - Mark Twain |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 179
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This is a link to the Japanese probe Kaguya (SELENE) which is looking for water ice on the moon (among other things) right now.
http://wms.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.html
(There is supposed to be an archive of HD videos of the moon taken by Kaguya from orbit, but they are rather difficult to access, so good luck!)
Recently, the Cassini probe orbited through the plume of a geyser on Enceladus and found water, carbon dioxide and other organic molecules present. These probes and groups like SETI are trying to find the âeasyâ life in the cosmos. Like a prospector who doesnât have the budget for a geological survey or a deep mine shaft, weâre âpanning for gold and hoping to strike it richâ. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 2120
Location: South Africa
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A geyser that hit the cassini probe in orbit? How deep do the panetary geologists think the permafrost is (if any)? I thought that Mars was supposed to be pretty dead inside (cooled I mean)?
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| free radical |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 503
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| Because, unlike mars, the moon has never had any form of an atmosphere. |
Hmm. Yes, that would be a good reason.  Cheers! |
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| free radical |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 2120
Location: South Africa
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Oh. 
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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