| Author |
Message
|
| JaneBennet |
 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Islamic politics |
 |
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 801
|
| Harold14370 wrote: |
I have a real problem with the intolerance of Muslims toward any other religions. If a Muslim comes to a Western country, he will be able to practice his religion freely, and will have all the rights of citizenship. In countries where Islam is very dominant, they do not allow freedom of religion. If they do tolerate other religions, they still treat them as second class citizens without full rights of citizenship.
The Muslim policy of killing apostates is also a violation of human rights in my view. Any person should be free to choose their religion, even those who are now Muslims. |
Discuss.
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
Proves its worth by fighting back.
(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
Fact of the day: Old English |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Pong |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Islamic politics |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1192
|
| JaneBennet wrote: |
| Discuss. |
You mean: attack.
Islamic politics is so broad we could swerve all over and probably in circles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 801
|
Read my cyberspatial lips. I siad: Discuss.
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
Proves its worth by fighting back.
(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
Fact of the day: Old English |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1591
Location: Pennsylvania
|
Jane, you started this thread to keep political discussion of Islam separate from the religion discussion, but the problem is that to Muslims, by and large, there is no separation. That's the problem.
On that note, I heard about a movement in Britain to allow Muslims to exercise Sharia law within the British Muslim communities. Perhaps you could give us some insight into that. I find it preposterous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 801
|
| Harold14370 wrote: |
| On that note, I heard about a movement in Britain to allow Muslims to exercise Sharia law within the British Muslim communities. Perhaps you could give us some insight into that. I find it preposterous. |
Movement? It was just a suggestion blurted out by someone (possibly after one too many): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7232661.stm
I doubt if it’s being taken seriously at all; I’d be most surprised if a Sharia-law system were to be implemented here. And even if it were, it would most certainly have to be subservient to British and EU laws.
_________________
A problem worthy of attack
Proves its worth by fighting back.
(Piet Hein)
Did You Know?
Fact of the day: Old English |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 974
Location: London
|
| JaneBennet wrote: |
| Harold14370 wrote: |
| On that note, I heard about a movement in Britain to allow Muslims to exercise Sharia law within the British Muslim communities. Perhaps you could give us some insight into that. I find it preposterous. |
Movement? It was just a suggestion blurted out by someone (possibly after one too many): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7232661.stm
I doubt if it’s being taken seriously at all; I’d be most surprised if a Sharia-law system were to be implemented here. And even if it were, it would most certainly have to be subservient to British and EU laws. |
Most hilariously, I heard today that Blackstone (or whatever the private contractors the USD uses are called), has asked that a case against them for the deaths of three US soldiers should, because it occurred in Iraq, be tried under sharia law (apparently there's no need for compensation for loss of life under that).
I'm trying to look for references to it, though, so for now I'm considering it an interesting rumour. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| jackson33 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1217
|
As Harold has said; The Qur'an, is the law of most all the Governments, which are Muslim, generally Monarchies, with out Constitutions or written laws, other than from the current or dominant clergy. There are about 60 such governments (states) around the world today.
Jane, you might want to read up on 'Law/Courts' in India today. They already have a dual system of Hindu/Sharia and if family matters Sharia trumps the Hindu in violent activity toward women.
Movements are alive and in progress in many nations to allow Muslims their own systems, with in another. This includes the USA and I might add not only the hard core, but in general the entire religion does not honor any practice of law other than Sharia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| jackson33 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1217
|
| sunshine; That case has been ongoing for some time, if not a separate case. The employer, if US Military or some US concern is responsible for them first. If employed by the Iraq government and paid by them, then Iraq law/courts would prevail. Any activity in Iraq, by Americans is presumed authorized by Iraq, whether charitable or military, which the US can either turn over 'law breakers' to Iraq authorities, try through the 'Military Code of Justice' or return to the US for trail. I doubt, the US would turn over anyone, for any crime, but go through the Iraq Government for some reasonable conclusion, at this time. Of course after their system is in place, any US citizen is subject to their laws and court systems, just as in any other country today. Said another way, there is probably no 'extradition treaty' with Iraq in practice, while we are defending them, at their request. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 974
Location: London
|
| jackson33 wrote: |
Jane, you might want to read up on 'Law/Courts' in India today. They already have a dual system of Hindu/Sharia and if family matters Sharia trumps the Hindu in violent activity toward women.
|
Jackson
What you say about the position of Blackwater employees in Iraq would be something I'd consider more seriously if I did not believe that you've got the emphasis quite wrong here.
The Indian Consitution does not allow Sharia law. What happened, when it was instituted (when India became a Republic in 1950, 3 years after independence) was that a series of family laws were promulgaed in order to take into account the different traditions followed by different religions. These were mainly to help with property issues - both during marriage, in case of divorce, and allocation to heirs.
Sharia law does not apply in India. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| jackson33 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1217
|
sunshine; Generally I don't get involved with discussion on Sharia Law, regardless where its practiced. Since the system is based on Interpretation of a single person or several of the Qur'an, a religious text of a society 500 years ago and can range from those rather strict original ideas to some more moderate ideas today.
India; My comments, only reflect that India, has a dual system to handle family matters, under enforcement and court rulings. Actually its tri, as even the 18% Christan's are handled different than Muslim or Hindu.
"Family Law in India are different for different religions and there is no uniform code"...Wikipedia, Indian Law, Family Law...
Its also my understanding, in Southern India, most all Legal procedures are still practice under Sharia, though the Indian Constitution is based on British Common Law, probably from years of being ruled by the British, ending 1947...Pakistan, went another direction as a Muslim Democracy (?) under Sharia...
Iraq; Don't think I had a 'emphasis' on anything in my explanation. If I wanted to, it would be that under normal conditions, any citizen of one country, is obliged to respect the laws of any other country when in their jurisdiction and regardless of the legal/court system of that country. Iraq, is different, only that is remains occupied by a coalition and that the coalition remains responsible for maintaining order, while a government is being formed, which is under 'International Law'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| kojax |
| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 970
|
| I'm beginning to dislike cultural pluralism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Pong |
| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1192
|
| Canadian Jews and Catholics were getting their own family law arbitration until recently. So Muslims demanded same, and that broke it: no more for anybody. Nothing legally binding anyhow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| jackson33 |
| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1217
|
Not trying to contradict my own comments, in the US a Judge in most of the 50 States has the final say, over a jury or as the sole decider. Most have a sentencing hearing, where mitigating circumstances help to make the final decision for punishment. Religion and other social issues are important to this end and why first time offenders, short of felony, rarely get prison sentences or where generally bad people seem to be given harsh sentences for minor crimes. Leniencies of religious cultures, can be considered but not absolute. On the other hand harshness of a culture, though considered, will not likely be considered. Federal Law and some States, set sentencing standards (by law must be followed) but still go through a sentencing process...
Note; Where allowed, few judges ever over rule a jury, but they can and it does happen... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Vexer |
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 42
|
The reason that Islam and Christianity are so opposed is that they are so alike.
Discuss. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1591
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Vexer wrote: |
The reason that Islam and Christianity are so opposed is that they are so alike.
Discuss. |
By that theory, Christians and Jews should be at one another's throats, being more similar to each other than either one to Muslims. Also, Muslims and Hindus are less similar to one another and should be getting along splendidly in India and Pakistan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
