| Author |
Message
|
| GrowlingDog |
 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: Is it only rascism if it's derogatory |
 |
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
|
I was just wondering if i say that i like blacks, muslims, asians and so on because they are great, awesome, sexy and a lot of other complimentary things is that racism? Or, do i have to be critical. If i say that i went to say, Turkey and i found the people to be rude, ugly and mean, that's racism right?
this leaves me with a problem. I can comfortably say that "The people of South America are wonderful and friendly" but what if i dont think that, what if i think they were horrible? If i say so, i'm a racist. This would mean that anything said about any group of people in a negative manner is wrong but anything said about them in a positive light is perfectly acceptable. Can anyone else see the problem with this?
_________________
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3443
Location: England, UK.
|
I never thought of it that way. Now you mention it yeah I can see the incongruency. So is it that we can only as a 'civilised society' like people and not be able to not like them? It seems daft, I mean granted, people are free to not like Muslims or blacks, whites, Christians, short people tall people etc, but I think the line arrives when you start hurting people because of it, like calling them names, or treating them differently. For instance in the work place if one did not like a disabled person and treated them unfairly it would be an equal injustice to have a favourite say a blonde office type and give her special treatment.
As I say I think the line arrives when it comes to people being hurt, physically or mentally.
_________________
"Victory is in trying. Defeat is in not". - SVRDW. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Tenacity |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Instow, Devon, UK
|
| If I were to say "Whites are great, friendly, loving people" in a room of black people I will have significantly shortened my life expectancy. So yes I think it is racism in a sense because you're "bigging up" one race above another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Banned
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1060
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
I only have to describe a person as black for my 13 year old son to gasp and say,
'Oh you're being racist mum!'
That's political correctness gone mad!
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I love a bit of SLAP & TICKLE
You Tickle
I'll Slap
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
|
| Selene wrote: |
I only have to describe a person as black for my 13 year old son to gasp and say,
'Oh you're being racist mum!'
That's political correctness gone mad! |
Well, even worse than that, in this country (Australia) if i use the word black to describe someone, they are told, usually by lawyers and counsel workers that that is offensive and that they should be offended. Why? They were born black and can never change that, is there something wrong with being black? After all if someone told me that i should be offended that someone called me white, i would want to know why, what is wrong with being white that if i am called it i should be offended.
By saying that calling someone black is derogatory, are you not also saying that being black is not good. To me it is never the words that are racist but the intonation behind them. Said in certain way, "Come on you black bastard" can be a term of endearment to a friend. Like calling a good mate a "bloody wanker" with a smile on your face.
I often used to say, "The bigger the insult, the closer the mate"
_________________
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Banned
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1060
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| GrowlingDog wrote: |
| Selene wrote: |
I only have to describe a person as black for my 13 year old son to gasp and say,
'Oh you're being racist mum!'
That's political correctness gone mad! |
Well, even worse than that, in this country (Australia) if i use the word black to describe someone, they are told, usually by lawyers and counsel workers that that is offensive and that they should be offended. Why? They were born black and can never change that, is there something wrong with being black? After all if someone told me that i should be offended that someone called me white, i would want to know why, what is wrong with being white that if i am called it i should be offended.
By saying that calling someone black is derogatory, are you not also saying that being black is not good. To me it is never the words that are racist but the intonation behind them. Said in certain way, "Come on you black bastard" can be a term of endearment to a friend. Like calling a good mate a "bloody wanker" with a smile on your face.
I often used to say, "The bigger the insult, the closer the mate" |
How else are we meant to describe one another?
We say a persons hair is black or blonde or white or red!
In the newspaper, for example if they are looking for a suspect and issue a description, it will describe the physical appearance of the person including the colour of their skin and will say either black or white.
They can't use the description of Caribbean or African etc because that may be wrong, so they just have to say black.
It's bloody stupid if you ask me.
I wouldn't bat an eyelid if somebody called me white, because that's what i am!
When you fill in those ethnic equality forms for jobs etc and you tick the box, the descriptions are white/British etc.
I thought Britain was extreme politically correct to an irrational degree, but it sounds like Australia has its own P.C madness too!
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I love a bit of SLAP & TICKLE
You Tickle
I'll Slap
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Is it only rascism if it's derogatory |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1166
|
| GrowlingDog wrote: |
I was just wondering if i say that i like blacks, muslims, asians and so on because they are great, awesome, sexy and a lot of other complimentary things is that racism? Or, do i have to be critical. If i say that i went to say, Turkey and i found the people to be rude, ugly and mean, that's racism right?
this leaves me with a problem. I can comfortably say that "The people of South America are wonderful and friendly" but what if i dont think that, what if i think they were horrible? If i say so, i'm a racist. This would mean that anything said about any group of people in a negative manner is wrong but anything said about them in a positive light is perfectly acceptable. Can anyone else see the problem with this? |
Saying nice things about races doesn't result in their not getting jobs, being enslaved or killed.
Hence saying nice things is not discouraged.
Being racist, like being sexist, homophobic etc etc, is all about doing or saying things that can result in harm or negative discrimination to the people of those groups.
Thus it is ok to generalise in a nice way as it is not harmful, it is irrelevant and inconsequential.
Being generally negative may also be harmless but generally as history has shown us, that is not the case.
_________________
'Time is the space between birth and death' by me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1166
|
| Tenacity wrote: |
| If I were to say "Whites are great, friendly, loving people" in a room of black people I will have significantly shortened my life expectancy. So yes I think it is racism in a sense because you're "bigging up" one race above another. |
Context is everything, so despite my earlier comment, yes this type of positive comment could be harmful too, not to all white people in general though but to the single person making this comment!
_________________
'Time is the space between birth and death' by me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4858
Location: Scotland
|
The problem with the group compliment (or the group criticism) is that it is a form of stereotyping. Such generalisation rarely apply to all members of the group. Acting as if they did will lead to bad decisions and inappropriate behaviour. This can have negative consequences either for the group members (as per ToR's earlier post) or for the person making those ill founded decisions.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Pong |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1681
|
| Ophiolite wrote: |
| The problem with the group compliment (or the group criticism) is that it is a form of stereotyping. Such generalisation rarely apply to all members of the group. Acting as if they did will lead to bad decisions and inappropriate behaviour. This can have negative consequences either for the group members (as per ToR's earlier post) or for the person making those ill founded decisions. |
Bravo, you've expressed my thoughts better.
Suppose someone routinely drops the handedness of others, as in "This lefty I met the other day..." or, "I really do like lefties, we should give them a fair chance."? Something ain't right there, you just know it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Paterae |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Is it only rascism if it's derogatory |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
|
| One is a racist for pointing out negative traits, habbits, etc.. *IF* there is no reason for pointing it out other than to make (insert race in question here) to feel inferior. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Is it only rascism if it's derogatory |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
|
| Paterae wrote: |
| One is a racist for pointing out negative traits, habbits, etc.. *IF* there is no reason for pointing it out other than to make (insert race in question here) to feel inferior. |
So if i get back from a holiday in say, France and someone asks me how i found the french and i say they were rude and arrogant, i'm stereotyping but i'm not being racist. If i say they were friendly and easy to talk to, i'm still stereotyping.
_________________
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Paterae |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
|
Simply stating that you found a culture to be rude and arrogant is not “racist” in this situation you are not commenting on their race, but their mannerisms. Stereotyping and racism is NOT the same thing. What it all boils down to is your perception and your intentions. What you might think to be a minuscule comical statement might be viewed as malicious racism to another.
Try this article:
Go to: https://www.ideals.uiuc.edu/handle/2142/3658 > Click the link on the bottom. > Ethnography_on_Tacos_and_Tequila[1].doc (71Kb) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
|
| Paterae wrote: |
Simply stating that you found a culture to be rude and arrogant is not “racist” in this situation you are not commenting on their race, but their mannerisms. Stereotyping and racism is NOT the same thing. What it all boils down to is your perception and your intentions. What you might think to be a minuscule comical statement might be viewed as malicious racism to another.
Try this article:
Go to: https://www.ideals.uiuc.edu/handle/2142/3658 > Click the link on the bottom. > Ethnography_on_Tacos_and_Tequila[1].doc (71Kb) |
But hang on, if said that i thought the Aboriginal people were filthy and lazy, surely that is racist, yet they are both mannerisms.
Anyway, my point was that it can only be racism if it is a negative comment and that seems to be confirmed by everyone here.
_________________
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4858
Location: Scotland
|
Well, let us keep in mind that
a) the French are not a race, so comments about them might be stereotyped or prejudiced, but they would not be racist.
b) the definition of race is questionable at the best of times - and when people are being critical, it is not the best of times.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
