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| Is Iraq (and likely Iran) a Diversion by a German Corp.? |
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| DrCWho |
 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Is Iraq (and likely Iran) a Diversion by a German Corp.? |
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I don't know if any of you have done the math of 9-11, but I have done considerable research into that and even had conversations with Leslie Cauley of USA Today (Article June 2006 issue about SBC turning all of our phone records over to the NSA) mostly because of her book Tough Calls: End of the Line. It is about a dying company called AT&T that envisioned a one world telecom (Theodore Veil 1917), but their goal was killed by Reagan in 1984. It's funny that the giant was broken up into Ma Bell and seven Baby Bells. Seems like I heard somewhere about a beast with seven heads whose deadly wound was healed. Mike Armstrong healed that wound to some degree, but still failed miserably. Then suddenly SBC is meeting with the NSA in St. Louis, then AT&T beefs up their headquarters on 6th Avenue about 8 blocks away from the WTC. The builder of the WTC, Karl Koch III (Men of Steel) had just erected the final finishing touch on the AT&T "nuke proofed" headquarters about 3 days prior to 9-11. AT&T occupied the 51st floor, but hadn't a single soul in there for several years. Then 9-11 occurred and Mr. Koch exclaimed to his daughter who was watching the whole thing after she informed him of the North Tower's collapse, "That's impossible!" The towers had been designed to sway 3 feet in any direction in a 150 MPH wind and also to withstand the impact of a 707.
The math I ran on the situation, in agreeance with the builder, states that the system above the impact sight would end up in the street (and, like Bin Laden wanted, would cascade into other buildings both North and South.) That didn't happen. Instead the building collapsed in a very uniform descent. This could only have happened if the core structure was severed at about the middle which would funnel the severed upper core through the lower section, like an extension ladder fully extended where the palls were suddenly removed. Where was floor 51? In the perfect key location and it was empty. Thermite could have done this. The planes could not and the DVD WTC:The first 24 hours. depicts a scene where the fuel went up in a ball of flame outside the towers. The wings and most of the fuel never made it into either tower.
Now consider this: In the early 90's Lucent, then owning Bell Labs, was horse trading with poverty stricken Russia for fiber optics cable and equipment. About the same time, Russia reported more than 90 of their tactical nukes (5KTon "suitcase" bombs and a number of the 10 - 15 KTon backpack bombs) came up missing. In 2002, 5 of the smaller bombs were recovered without the fissile material. Did AT&T have a big part in 9-11? Are they cultivating us toward surving a nuclear demolition of the US, killing the non-intelligencia that don't qualify as candidqates for the "super race" with shows like Jericho, Survivor, Big Brother, etc. because they are essentially telling us what to expect? AT&T owns about 25% of Time-Warner who owns CBS. Too much to ignore such a possibility. Perhaps they are recreating Hitler's doomsday device? I mean a German based company named Lucent... why does that name bother me, when chemicals called luciferins are simply marvelous tethonic chemicals? Hitler supposedly had this device that likely would have failed, but the Bell Labs? I think they could do the job right. If they don't get their way this time and run all the other telecoms out of business, will they perpetrate the biggest temper tantrum in the history of mankind?
I hope to God, I'm just totally delusional about all that.
Just some food for thought 
Dr. CWho
_________________
Darwin's Law
Nature will tell us a lie if she can.
Bloch's extension to Darwin's Law:
So will Darwinists
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Well, you seem pretty dellusional about other stuff, so you probably are about this too!
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“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: Now
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Calling someone delusional without knowing them personally or anything else about their life is a very illogical presume. And personally it is not very nice and won't win over peoples friendships or recommendations, and one thing you need to get by in this life is friends. So think before you speak again.
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
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I have done a lot of reseach on 911 myself, I have concluded that the official story is baloney and that it was an inside job. Unfortunately it also means that the major branches of government from the Pentagon, CIA, FBI, have corrupt/criminal elements in key positions and that the media is complicit and propaganda. Btw, the media propaganda is not limited to 911, the western public has been fooled for a century, on a whole host of issues and of course each time theres about to be a war, people(including those in the government and the military without top clearance) are fed lies by the media and they believe them (curious that Pulitzer is both a prized honor and the name of a journalist whose lies and distortions whiped up public support for the Spanish-American war).
but so far, I have found no information leading me to beleive that AT&T played any pivotal role in 911, much less nukes etc.
From what I could read you are completely off track(imo).
Heres a few questions you might want to look into...
Who made millions with the insurance and blundered by saying WTC7 "pull IT" ?
Which investement corporation placed the put options on the Airlines used on 911, and which intelligence organization is this corporation linked to(front)?
Who signed the PNAC manifesto(new Pearl Harbor) and changed the interception protocols just before 911 and took control of the USAF excercices with a highjacked planes scenario on the morning of 911 and was briefed periodically about a plane heading towards the pentagon while the cluelss secretary of Transportaion was next to him?
Which israeli company's employees got warning messages 2 hours before the plane hit the WTC.
Which ISI official authorized wired transfer of 100K to Mohamed Atta before 911 and also meet with senior US official in Washington on 911? Which of these US officials just happen to be selected as members of the whitewash 911 report?
Which mainstream news anchor reported that Osama was in a pakistani militari hospital on the 10th of september(report that has never seen the light of day since).
And, Who gained from 911?
Halliburton[Cheney] and military companies made billions, the Israelis[AIPAC] got saddam out and water & oil pipelines, Oil corporations[Bush, Rice] made billions by putting a lid on Iraq's oil production(raising prices), Wall Street[CIA] got saddam to stop trading oil in euros (and probably got billions in cia/traffiker afghan opium laundered money), the pentagon[Powell] got their permanent bases in a region to threathen/control the supply to China(say uncle), and the Fascist-ly inclinded have gained tightening of control over the public and closer to a police state. |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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I don't think calling someone stupid because they watch big brother, survivor, or other such shows was very nice either, he doesn't seem to be wanting to friends either with comments like that.
Also, to say the attacks on us were constructed by our own people, instead of placing the blame where it belongs, is appalling. This comes from America haters who want the rest of the world to think we are manipulating everything and will kill our own people in the process. His post is a sham, a disgrace, and is very disrespectful to the family and friends who have lost loved ones in the attacks on innocent people in the US by terrorist organizations.
This kind of deceit spreading and lying is horrible! I will not stand Idly by while my country is being bashed!
Do you honestly believe terrorist organizations do not want to kill us because they are hell bent on ridding the world of Zionists, Jews, and Christians, and they believe our country to be the embodiment of these religions? No matter what you and I may believe personally? Do you honestly believe brave men and women working in the FBI, CIA, Military and Government would not have either prevented this or brought it to light? You don't automatically become little Hitlers when you work for the Government!
You people will blame America first, ask questions later. I do not like it and I do not wish to be "Friends" with such disgraceful, deceitful and cowardly people!
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| DrCWho |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 122
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| Quote: |
| Unfortunately it also means that the major branches of government from the Pentagon, CIA, FBI, have corrupt/criminal elements in key positions and that the media is complicit and propaganda. |
Interesting analysis. I'll have to explore some of that. We are on the same page regarding infiltration of government key positions. Don't forget the FCC.
Consider who benefitted most from 9-11. Verizon, the one "Baby Bell" that refuses to reunite with Ma Bell, was seriously damaged in 9-11. Luckily none of their people were injured, but they lost an acre of switching circuitry in the South Tower.
Yes, building 7 is a major clue that shouts "demolition." Other issues include a committee developed in 1989, claiming the building was structurally depleted through electrolysis between the aluminum facade and the structural steel of the "bird cage." If that were true, the aluminum decorative skin would have been deteriorating far faster and extensively than the painted structural steel it hid. This surely would have been noticed because in all my experience building signs from anodized aluminum mounted on steel poles, I've seen 100% of the time where the aluminum loses the war. (I've earned my research capital over the years, as well as bread and butter, in that trade.)
425,
I appreciate the support, but I'm not afraid of confrontations. I'll address the control issue in the "New Kid" thread. In the other threads, I'll do what SNat stated he hoped in that thread to him(?) and ignore the attacker. 
Theories are simply that. A theory is a hypothesis that cannot be nullified. Many exist in all areas of knowledge. It's relieving to be able to speak out on a subject and receive input and conversation. Internet flames are nothing more than hot air, so really quite harmless. 
_________________
Darwin's Law
Nature will tell us a lie if she can.
Bloch's extension to Darwin's Law:
So will Darwinists
http://groups.msn.com/JUSTOUTOFTHEBOX |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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Hello Supernatendo thanks for your comment, your outrage is undertandable given the media's propaganda, the nature of the subject, and your possible lack of information.
First, let me tell you that False Flag operations are a documented fact, and its not only the US that has engaged in these ruthless acts.
Many of the terrorists acts in Russia that have killed scores of Russians prior to the Chechen war were most likely false flag operations by the agency that has replaced the KGB. Canada's police in the 70s engaged in false flag terrorism to terrorize the public for political goals, although no one was killed, they were blowing bombs, robbery, death threat, manifestos, recruiting and creating terrorist cells with agents provocateurs, no one in the public would EVER have known if an RCMP officer had not been wounded by the accidental detonation of the bomb he was planting, and although it was in the newspapers then and unmasked by a royal commision, the media has since avoided it to the point that many Canadians today are unaware of these events. Israel has a lot of False Flag operation under its belt, and its safe to assume that other states have also engaged in them.
Watch the video 'War on Democracy', its not about false flag but its content is not what you find on mainstream media.
I also suggest you look up operation NORTHWOODS, a plan elaborated by the US Army to whipup support for a war against Cuba, see for yourself what it was suggesting,
and I recommend watching the testimony of survivors of the USS Liberty.
The more you read official declassified documents, congressional investigations that are not detailed in the media and study covert operations, the more you will also realize that the media you used to relly on has been and still is painting a very distorted version of events, the more you will feel you have taken the red pill in the Matrix (Unfortunatly getting all that info is much more time consuming than taking a pill).
Last edited by icewendigo on Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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" the aluminum decorative skin would have been deteriorating far faster "
Interesting, its the first I hear of it, but had the building required major renovations or demolition Ive hear that asbestos would have made these very very costly.
back to Supernatendo....
If your curious and interested to know more about foreign policy or 911, my suggestion is to avoid the more sensational/vocal/visible advocates of 911 truth initially (often of limited relyability or engaging in outright disinformation) until you have had a chance to get a broader perspective first. To do so you can look up John Pilger documentarys (as a soft introduction), as well as insight of Peter Dale Scott and Michael Chossudovsky's War and globalization
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeYV_hhWBsY
cheers
Rick |
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| DrCWho |
| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 122
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| Quote: |
" the aluminum decorative skin would have been deteriorating far faster "
Interesting, its the first I hear of it, but had the building required major renovations or demolition Ive hear that asbestos would have made these very very costly.
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Ice,
You have some interesting input.
The WTC had no asbestos. This was considered to be a reason for the core supposedly overheating. Asbestos prevents this in other skyscrapers.
Think of Occam's Razor in this. The path of least resistance. The simplest method. The simplest method also involves the most capable method. The easiest way to move land is with a bulldozer or backhoe, but one needs the budget to own or rent the machine. To build the machine was costly. To steal a plane is a poor man's method. To demolish a building so perfectly requires more money.
_________________
Darwin's Law
Nature will tell us a lie if she can.
Bloch's extension to Darwin's Law:
So will Darwinists
http://groups.msn.com/JUSTOUTOFTHEBOX |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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| It may very well be that there was no asbestos in the WTC, but I have no hard evidence for nor against, so I'll have to do some more research into it before I form an opinion either way. |
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| DrCWho |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 122
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Ice,
I recommend the book "Men of Steel" by Karl Koch III, builder of the WTC. It is not a set of plans, but you can get a very useful knowledge of the WTC from a construction perspective.
What was going on with AT&T even while the WTC was in its planning stages suggests a serious inconvenience to AT&T as "Radio Row" was demised to become "Silicon Valley," no longer close to Helmsdel, N.J. where the Bell Labs exist as the largest manufacturing and scientific facility on the face of the planet. One must look at J.D. Rockefeller Jr. and his bunch to see how even AT&T, riding on his shirt-tails, did not end up happy with the WTC where it was. It was originally to be closer to the harbor, but the Harbor Authority wanted it where it was actually built and they have the say over the permits to build.
AT&T's history reflects a corporation that not only had the means to collapse the towers, both financially and intellectually, they had the motive. The essence of that motive became initiated when SBC started working with the NSA to provide a covert method of monitoring phone calls and internet habits of anyone they should choose. The NSA balked at first, but after 9-11 it was SBC/AT&T's chance to shine and build their telecom superstore "all around the world."
Dr. CWho
_________________
Darwin's Law
Nature will tell us a lie if she can.
Bloch's extension to Darwin's Law:
So will Darwinists
http://groups.msn.com/JUSTOUTOFTHEBOX |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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according to the New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health the WTC contained asbestos.
I have read in unrelated news reports that asbestos was used in the begining of the construction and that at some point through the construction they stopped using it for the floors being constructed after a point so the top half did not have asbestos(but presumably something else).
But asbestos is a red herring imo, even if there was or wasnt asbestos, or wether the toilet on the 52nd flood was functional, it doesnt change much about 911 (except from a health and safety perspective, which is what New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health is concerned with)
Btw,
Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga (the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, lookup Gladio for more info on false flag operations), has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad |
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| DrCWho |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 122
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Interesting, Ice.
Mostly I'm sticking with the physics of structural engineering and aircraft engineering. I have more to research, but I have quite a few more irons in the fire at the moment.
Things happen to people who fight against juggernauts...
Goliaths are still vulnerable to smooth flat stones, just like the Earth is vulnerable to Gaspra.
Tell me more...
Dr CWho
_________________
Darwin's Law
Nature will tell us a lie if she can.
Bloch's extension to Darwin's Law:
So will Darwinists
http://groups.msn.com/JUSTOUTOFTHEBOX |
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| kojax |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 949
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
I don't think calling someone stupid because they watch big brother, survivor, or other such shows was very nice either, he doesn't seem to be wanting to friends either with comments like that.
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I agree. Calling people stupid in general isn't very polite, because we all have intellectual failings of one kind or another.
| Quote: |
Also, to say the attacks on us were constructed by our own people, instead of placing the blame where it belongs, is appalling. This comes from America haters who want the rest of the world to think we are manipulating everything and will kill our own people in the process. His post is a sham, a disgrace, and is very disrespectful to the family and friends who have lost loved ones in the attacks on innocent people in the US by terrorist organizations.
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That's a pretty blank check you're writing there.
I think you'd just rather believe the government is incompetent than evil. I don't know why you're so comfortable assuming they're incompetent. I'd respect them more if they were evil than incompetent.
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Do you honestly believe terrorist organizations do not want to kill us because they are hell bent on ridding the world of Zionists, Jews, and Christians, and they believe our country to be the embodiment of these religions?
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I don't believe that they are able, or at least not as able as people make them out to be. Most of them also know there will be retaliation if they go too far.
Thing is that, if they didn't do it, and we retaliate anyway, that takes away their motivation to leave us alone. I mean, why bother having self restraint, if you're going to be blamed anyway? Bin Laden didn't take credit for it. Kind of funny for a terrorist not to take credit for the single most successful terrorist operation of the century....
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No matter what you and I may believe personally? Do you honestly believe brave men and women working in the FBI, CIA, Military and Government would not have either prevented this or brought it to light? You don't automatically become little Hitlers when you work for the Government!
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They wouldn't even have been aware. An operation like this can be done so that no one anywhere in the government even sees it, except perhaps a very small handful.
The Government's right hand doesn't know what its left is doing. You can easily tell the right hand to do one half of the operation, and assign the left hand to do the other half, and nobody will know what's going on well enough to put all the pieces together. They won't even know they were part of it.
You only need a few key people, and if you don't think anyone's ever betrayed their country from within the government for money....... then where did the USSR get spies from during the cold war???
| Quote: |
You people will blame America first, ask questions later. I do not like it and I do not wish to be "Friends" with such disgraceful, deceitful and cowardly people! |
I think you're exaggerating a little.
You seem to think people should automatically believe whatever they're told and never look for themselves. I looked into both sides, and then found absolutely impossible-to-refute proof positive that it had been an inside job.
I did the math on the fall times of the buildings. It's physically impossible for a building the WTC's size to collapse that fast, unless almost all of its supports were taken out before the fall began.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have collapsed without a purposeful demolition, but it's absolutely impossible for it to have done so inside of the time frame we saw. Not marginally impossible. Absolutely impossible. |
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| GrowlingDog |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Location: At the gates of Sto-vo-kor
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Conspiracy theorists make me laugh. There must be at least a dozen countries in the world that would love to see the US fall or to show them as liars yet no government believes it was anything else but a bunch of pissed off muslims that carried out 9/11. There are media empires around the world that would love to show the same thing but no even small, reputable media organization has tried to report it as anything but what has been reported. Yet still, there are a bunch of deluded people on the net that are ready to believe any crackpot that is selling a DVD or book claiming that it was an inside job or something sinister like that. What's really sad is when talking to one of these conspiracy nuts i asked, "Is there ANYTHING that could convince you that 9/11 was carried out by exactly what the BBC, CNN and a dozen other news services reported?" "No" was his reply. Well if there is nothing that can change your mind then why even talk at all.
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