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| Illogic of Inflation Theory |
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| kris12 |
 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Illogic of Inflation Theory |
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I don`t understand how is it that just after the Big Bang universe spread faster than speed of light, than at one moment it decreased its speed, only to over the course of time increase again?
Isn`t that illogical? |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Guth applied the quantum term of “negative pressure” to the Big Bang. A patch of this smaller than an atom can come out of nowhere and then inflate to about 25 orders of magnitude (100 million times) in tiny slices of a second (one second divided by a 1 with thirty seven zeroes behind it.). This is a real aspect of quantum physics, not hand waiving. Normally, particle pairs are created that promptly annihilate each other, but in this case, the quantum state got “hung”. You can supercool water and it remains liquid. When it finally does freeze, the entire volume freezes at once, releasing a lot of energy. The initial universe was created by energy equal to what you would get from a kilogram of matter (300 megajoules). As it expanded it cooled and the Superforce separated into the forces we know today (Strong, Weak and Electromagnetism). This released the energy that makes up the 100 billion galaxies we have today and continued the expansion. After several billion years, the universe then slowed until dark energy’s effect took over. Gravity bends space-time and DE stretches space-time. This last stage of expansion may continue forever. |
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| kris12 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SolomonGrundy |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Arch2008 wrote: |
| Alan Guth applied the quantum term of “negative pressure” to the Big Bang. A patch of this smaller than an atom can come out of nowhere and then inflate to about 25 orders of magnitude (100 million times) in tiny slices of a second (one second divided by a 1 with thirty seven zeroes behind it.). This is a real aspect of quantum physics, not hand waiving. Normally, particle pairs are created that promptly annihilate each other, but in this case, the quantum state got “hung”. You can supercool water and it remains liquid. When it finally does freeze, the entire volume freezes at once, releasing a lot of energy. The initial universe was created by energy equal to what you would get from a kilogram of matter (300 megajoules). As it expanded it cooled and the Superforce separated into the forces we know today (Strong, Weak and Electromagnetism). This released the energy that makes up the 100 billion galaxies we have today and continued the expansion. After several billion years, the universe then slowed until dark energy’s effect took over. Gravity bends space-time and DE stretches space-time. This last stage of expansion may continue forever. |
What a load full of bull , realy man is that the way it happend?Do you have pictures to show us?
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Solomon Grundy
In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy". |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Its a very good theory and its very logical.
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"Victory is in trying. Defeat is in not". - SVRDW. |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: How's this? |
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| Cyberia |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Arch2008. I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Solomon.
Negative pressure? Vacuum?
A God moment when something appeared from nothing. Was it branes from Dimension Z that caused this?
Seems like hand waiving to me. Or has anyone achieved inflation in a laboratory?
1x10^-37 second is waaay beyond anything we are capable of so we are in mathsworld here.
Verne's "Off on a comet" featured supercooled water freezing, a century ago.
The universe was created by energy from 1 kg of matter. This is a science forum and not a fairy forum, isn't it? some people will eat garbage if told it is best steak.
Dark energy? Another fairy tale.
The universe at an alleged 158 billion light years is supposed to be finely balanced. When solid matter was created at an alleged 380,000 years after the BB, the reason the universe did not collapse into a black hole is.....? |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Never agree with SG. |
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When someone asks me what we celebrate on 4 July here in the U.S. I point out that it is the signing of the Declaration of Independence marking the birth of my nation. Some could always question whether I am just making this up. How could this possibly be true, that a colony could defeat the then world superpower? I take it for granted that people with access to the internet can check things for themselves. So when I post something at a science forum, the same is true.
For those of you who do not know what a search engine does, here is a link about cosmic inflation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflationary_universe
Heather Couper wrote in her book, "Endless Universe", that the Big Bang was actually the bang you would get from a kilogram of matter converted to energy. She goes on to point out that as the universe cooled, the separation of the Superforce is where the energy that kept inflation going came from. This is the energy that created the 100 billion galaxies and kept the universe from collapsing into a black hole. Inflation happens everywhere everyday at a quantum level, there's just not a second Superforce lying around to fuel it into a second universe. Since she is (or was when she wrote the book) the professor of Astronomy at Gresham College, London and the former president of the British Astronomical Association, I leave it to you as to whether or not she is just making that part up.
Einstein calculated the effect of gravity on light a long time before we could physically measure it. Similarly we can calculate what happened in the universe at 1x10^-37 seconds even though we cannot physically measure that yet.
Allegedly, there are people who just do not understand math! |
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| SolomonGrundy |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| Its a very good theory and its very logical. |
In other universe maybe but not ours.
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Solomon Grundy
In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy". |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Never agree with SG. |
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| Arch2008 wrote: |
| When someone asks me what we celebrate on 4 July here in the U.S. I point out that it is the signing of the Declaration of Independence marking the birth of my nation. Some could always question whether I am just making this up. How could this possibly be true, that a colony could defeat the then world superpower? I take it for granted that people with access to the internet can check things for themselves. So when I post something at a science forum, the same is true. |
I like your analogy, if your care to continue. The formation of your and my country, was from people who believed beyond the accepted. It was the first country or group of people (society) that refused to believe, people could not govern themselves and challenged literally the world, they could and have spent 225 years or so, to prove that philosophy.
In science, IMO the accepted is not challenged, certainly to a degree of allowing study/testing/education or CHALLENGING that acceptance. Were well beyond logical challenge and to the point where any person with some degree in any some field, which is near regulated by some entity (religious or political), trumps all else, for jobs or what have you. Hypothetical followed by hypothetical explanations or unexplained reasoning, does not equal certainty in my opinion. Also in my opinion, many of your certainties and explained facts are pure speculation of the unexplainable. Telling the new to science, their doubts to what could be or should be, is equal to telling those founders/framers, they were wrong and destined to some failure... |
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| SolomonGrundy |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Never agree with SG. |
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| jackson33 wrote: |
| Arch2008 wrote: |
| When someone asks me what we celebrate on 4 July here in the U.S. I point out that it is the signing of the Declaration of Independence marking the birth of my nation. Some could always question whether I am just making this up. How could this possibly be true, that a colony could defeat the then world superpower? I take it for granted that people with access to the internet can check things for themselves. So when I post something at a science forum, the same is true. |
I like your analogy, if your care to continue. The formation of your and my country, was from people who believed beyond the accepted. It was the first country or group of people (society) that refused to believe, people could not govern themselves and challenged literally the world, they could and have spent 225 years or so, to prove that philosophy.
In science, IMO the accepted is not challenged, certainly to a degree of allowing study/testing/education or CHALLENGING that acceptance. Were well beyond logical challenge and to the point where any person with some degree in any some field, which is near regulated by some entity (religious or political), trumps all else, for jobs or what have you. Hypothetical followed by hypothetical explanations or unexplained reasoning, does not equal certainty in my opinion. Also in my opinion, many of your certainties and explained facts are pure speculation of the unexplainable. Telling the new to science, their doubts to what could be or should be, is equal to telling those founders/framers, they were wrong and destined to some failure... |
Agree ...
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Solomon Grundy
In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy". |
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| Arch2008 |
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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NASA says that the Big Bang theory is the most tested theory in history. It is constantly challenged, in part and in its entirety, every day, in every way. Except that it has never been challenged successfully. If someone wrote a scientific paper titled, "Problems with the round Earth theory", that doesn't make the theory that the Earth is round in any way controversial or "in question". Papers get read, not just by 'accepted/evil Big Science', but by lots of people. If BBT was successfully challenged, then everyone would know about it because the challenger would be holding a Nobel prize. Remember that Einstein wasn't even employed as a scientist when he published his paper on Special Relativity. Papers are reviewed by everyone in the world. The notion that some kind of 'Masonic Science' is squashing dissent really requires something like proof.
Some people refuse to accept that we can really know things. Einstein didn't mean to say that E=mc^2 some of the time, or only when it doesn't conflict with anything that your Sunday school teacher taught you. Scientific facts are certainties. The ultimate knowledge of the effect of Relativity on the universe was in a way a disappointment even to its discoverer, because he didn't like the idea that the universe had a beginning. Even Einstein did not like knowing some things about the universe. As Carl Sagan said, "Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
If someone asks if there is an equation showing the relation between energy and matter, I will always post no less than what is known with scientific certainty. I will do the same for the BBT.
Agreed? |
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| Cyberia |
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Arch2008. There are endless thousands of books and articles on superstrings. Show me one piece of actual evidence that they exist.
Evidence for the BB is basically the CMB and red shift and of course, it is totally impossible that they might have another explanation because God himself told us.
Gravity does not bend light but the medium it travels through (space).
Suppose we lived in a world where it was always 90-95.C and with limited science we have cooled water down to 10.C. So we draw a graph and we can prove that water vanishes not far below -10.C . Except that we know everything changes at 4.C and 0.C .
I have found people who do know the math to be extremely inflexible and 100% dependant on everything in science being 100% beyond criticism.
A question I asked to such a person on another forum. The Universe is finely balanced at 158 billion light years in diameter. Solid matter is created at 380,000 years after the BB. The reason why the universe of maybe 7x10^22 solar masses and such a size did not contract into a black hole is.....? |
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| Cyberia |
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Arch2008. BB most tested theory? Explain.
It failed the afterglow test. In 2005, a scientist with 50 years in the business showed that hundreds of reading from WMAP said to be from the CMB were exactly the same as HI readings in our own galaxy. Duh! There are many websites pointing out obvious defects in the BB if you care to check.
Several years ago an open letter was published in New Scientist from 27 top people in the field saying they believed that the BB was wrong and pointing out problems with it.
Expansion should have been perfectly uniform (since it was unbiased) till solid matter appeared so explain how the BB produced:
1. Walls of galaxies.
2. A hole in the universe a billion light years across.
3. A black hole of 18,000,000,000 solar masses.
Type 1A supernovae have been shown not to be standard candles. For any number of reasons they can have different luminosities. |
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