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| portcontrol7 |
 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Humanity has not existed for longer that 6k years... |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 57
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Please give me easy to understand information to disprove this posts outrageous topic. Easy enough for a fundamentalist christian to understand.
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"The most monstrous effect of the indoctrination of the young by religion, is not that they are mislead, but are trained to mislead themselves." - Me |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: Norway
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I just googled "oldest human remains" and this came up as the first link:
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"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
-- Albert Einstein
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein |
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| spuriousmonkey |
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 12 May 2005
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Yeah, but no creationist is going to believe in the age of those fossils.
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| BumFluff |
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
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Location: Canada
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I usually just point and laugh myself.
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Isotope
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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what do you think this thread is about then ? on the surface it may be about dating of geologic strata, but we all know what the real issue is, don't we ?
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biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| portcontrol7 |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well I have relatives who will simply say that scientists are full of it, and their dating methods are wrong, the bible says so nah nah nah!
I guess I'll have to really get a strong grasp of how we date these fossils and then break it down to them.
Also on the genetic level I'd expect there to be evidence of a longer than 6k year history, but I really don't know much about this either.
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"The most monstrous effect of the indoctrination of the young by religion, is not that they are mislead, but are trained to mislead themselves." - Me |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Forum Isotope
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Location: Cardiff, Wales
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as jollybear has shown many times over, those who don't want to be convinced won't be, through a mixture of wilful ignorance and plain disbelief
+ the internet is so full of counter-information these days that whatever you can throw at them in terms of paleontological, geological, genetic, astronomical and archeological data, they'll counter with spurious misinformation from sites such as conservapedia and answersingenesis
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if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| Vexer |
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 43
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There's a strong Biblical case that many of the time periods in the Bible are er, what's the word, symbolic? As in a 'day' may mean an 'age'. A 'year' means (God-knows-what).
I'd Google that (given more, er, 'imperical' avenues seem to be closed off).
Works for some people. As in 'the seven days of Creation' means seven... well - Google it. |
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| spuriousmonkey |
| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 764
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That makes Moses even older than before.
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4804
Location: Scotland
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Moses was found in a basket amongst the bullshit wasn't he? Or was that bullrushes?
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| Vexer |
| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes I don't know how calling the deeply held beliefs of people "bullshit", makes things any better.
I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other. That goes both ways. Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'. Which is more often than not, a better thing.
'Monkey - maybe if you... they have an answer to that. |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Vexer wrote: |
| Sometimes I don't know how calling the deeply held beliefs of people "bullshit", makes things any better. |
Perhaps my intention is not to make things better. Perhaps my intention is to convey that I too hold beliefs. These beliefs are not only passionately held, but rationally arrived at. So, I reserve the right to say bullshit when I see it. I also expect the blind purveyors of this bullshit to march on blithely unaware of the stench which accompanies them.
There now, don't you think the lighthearted comment about the bullrushes (whichafter all conveys a knowledge of the Bible) was preferable to my comments above.
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| I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other. |
I've made the examination. I was a potential candidate for the ministry.
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| Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'. |
On the contrary. It is the close examination that enables me to say bullshit.
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| Scifor Refugee |
| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 02 May 2005
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| Vexer wrote: |
| I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other. That goes both ways. Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'. Which is more often than not, a better thing. |
As was already pointed out by Ophiolite, it is precisely the fact that I have listened to what they have to say and examined their beliefs carefully that I am comfortable calling them bullshit. If I didn't know much about their beliefs, I would probably just say "I'm not sure, I'll have to look into it more," rather than declaring it bullshit. Many years of attending a religious school while growing up has left me thoroughly familiar with their beliefs. Your theory that a person is less likely to call beliefs bullshit if they examine the beliefs closely only works if the other person's beliefs have some validity that become apparent upon close examination. That's not the case here - the closer you look, the more crazy and nonsensical it all appears.
Last edited by Scifor Refugee on Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:36 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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| Scifor Refugee |
| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 02 May 2005
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| portcontrol7 wrote: |
| Well I have relatives who will simply say that scientists are full of it, and their dating methods are wrong, the bible says so nah nah nah! |
Well, if they have already decided a priori that any evidence that contradicts their beliefs are lies, then there isn't really anything you can do. After all, any evidence that you might present to them that contradicts their beliefs is automatically a lie. If it wasn't a lie, then it wouldn't contradict their beliefs, now would it?
The bottom line is that your criteria for judging what is true and what is false is very different from their criteria. You apparently look at evidence, evaluate the evidence, and see where it points. They, on the other hand, decide what is true and then judge any evidence based on how well it conforms to what they have determined is true. You could try having a deep discussion with them about how they know what is true and what isn't, but it isn't likely to be productive. |
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| Vexer |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I am comfortable calling them bullshit.
Then you're calling those people, bullshit. And they, will call you the same.
And this will help anyone, how. |
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