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| Zitterbewegung |
 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Hey you friggin' Irish pricks....... |
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Forum Junior
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 203
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........after cashing in on the EU (check the economy of your backwater country BEFORE and AFTER joining the EU) you just don't want to give anything in return, e.g. ratifiying the Lissabon treaty? Your goddamn democratic right but don't come running for any more support by the other countries you buttnuts.
Sorry for the rant but this had to be said.
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Forum Isotope
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2587
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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one question though : why is it that all politicians are in favour of the new constitution and that, whenever it is put to the people to vote, they say no
either the politicians don't bring their case across properly, or people distrust politicians to such an extent that they'll vote against anything politicans are for
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 379
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 Congratulations to the Irish for showing there's still a remnant of democracy in the EU
Before anyone dare crap on Ireland  , start having a democratic process where the people decide if they want the treaty or not, once the people of all countries get to vote on it then come back here to complain about one country's vote or another. 
(NAFTA was great in theory, but the devil is in the details, a contract with a great sales pitch and a good title on the page cover is only as good as the small print  )
thanks |
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Forum Junior
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 203
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First of all I am steamed because of this "the EU owes us big time that's why we joined in the first place and now when it comes down to the wire we flip you the bird"-attitude. The Irish don't want the EU - fine with me, get lost, we have enough leaches as is we don't need any more. I am not shitting on the Irish, I just tell them that there's not such a thing as a free lunch. You want the goodies, you suck up and also have some of the worms with it.
The other thing with all those "Grassroots" democratic movements that really get's on my nerves is the negative attitude: we are against this and also against that and we cartainly don't want THAT either, that's for shure. Question: what do you want insted?
Answer: Not what you offered us!
Question: What DO you want?
Answer: I DON'T want THAT!
Ansoonandsoforthadnauseamadinfinitum...........yaddayada. Hey, if you don't want something tell me what you want instead. Make some viable suggestions and give me alternatives.
Given, the politicians don't make it always clear what the choices are but a lot of people don't even want to listen because it involves reading, thinking and making an informed decission. It's waayyy more convenient to read the "Sun", "BILD" (for the germans) and regurgitate the polemic phrases those asswipe-pices-of-junk-papers spew out. It also has something to do that a lot of politicians do not base their decissions on facts and figures but what the people want to hear. After all, the next elections are around the corner!
And what's the deal to set-up a strong EU to cover our asses against a lot of that globalization-bullshit. I'd rather would like to work together with a couple of civilized people to deal with such motherfuckers like Ahmadinejad from Iran than "evervybody for themselves and the devil take the hindmost!" (and the hindmost most likely will be the smaller countries, right, Ireland??)
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| Cat1981(England) |
| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 948
Location: Mind your own business
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| marnixR wrote: |
one question though : why is it that all politicians are in favour of the new constitution and that, whenever it is put to the people to vote, they say no
either the politicians don't bring their case across properly, or people distrust politicians to such an extent that they'll vote against anything politicans are for |
It not that politicians don't bring their case across properly, it's simply because the anti-EU lobby use the same techniques as the big corporations use, by trying to plant doubt into peoples minds. The tobacco industry's did it for decades and the oil companies are still doing it.
| icewendigo wrote: |
Congratulations to the Irish for showing there's still a remnant of democracy in the EU
Before anyone dare crap on Ireland , start having a democratic process where the people decide if they want the treaty or not, once the people of all countries get to vote on it then come back here to complain about one country's vote or another.
(NAFTA was great in theory, but the devil is in the details, a contract with a great sales pitch and a good title on the page cover is only as good as the small print )
thanks |
People don't normally vote for or against treaty's, they vote for MP's and governments to do that for them.
The only major party in Ireland to campaign for the 'NO' vote was Sinn Fein, you know the ones who have very strong links to the IRA. Playing on peoples nationalist feelings in the same way the Nazi party did and modern nationalist party's across Europe still do.
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The whole idea for the LT was to make the EU cheaper by cutting out unnecessary waste, make the EU MORE democratic with rights such as 'citizens petitions' which would mean any issue would have to be considered by the commission if a petition was signed by a million citizens, reduce the number of MEP from the big country's and increases the number from the smaller country's, making it a priority of EU country's to combat climate change and global warming, giving national parliaments greater ability to veto matters concerning their individual country's, it would have also given clearer guild lines on which country would be able to apply for EU membership based on human rights and geographical issues (as well as others) after Morocco and Turkey recent applications. Etc etc.
The Irish have voted to keep the current undemocratic EU.
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