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| coberst |
 Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Hero Says: I AM SOMEBODY |
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Hero Says: I AM SOMEBODY
“Heroes are people who rise to the occasion and slip quietly away.” Tom Brokaw
“True heroism consists in being superior to the ills of life, in whatever shape they may challenge us to combat.” Napoleon Bonaparte
“What the world needs now, more than ever before, are every day heroes who are ready, willing and able to make a difference.” Greg Hickman
Anthony Quinn, in “Requiem for a Heavyweight”, earned his inner sense of self-value by constantly reminding him self and others that he was “fifth-ranking contender for the heavyweight crown”. This made him really somebody, gave him continual nourishment, allowed him to hold his head high in the shabbiest circumstances.
“Academic intellectuals have their own fine gradations of worth: a six-hour teaching load, with no under-graduate teaching, in an ivy-league school; a three hour teaching load, with only one undergraduate course, in an almost ivy-league school. How these balance in the scale of self-worth can cause agonizing life decisions.”
Hero is a technical word used in psychology to label an action that helps a person to increase their self-esteem. Modern man likes to spend his time shopping. Politicians inform us that a hero goes shopping when things get tough in Iraq.
“The supreme law is this: the sense of worth of the self must not be allowed to be diminished.”--Alfred Adler
Self-esteem is the goal and heroism is the means; those who do not find a means for establishing self-esteem are in trouble.
My act is heroic if I think it is and it is also heroic if others think that it is. If my act is heroic then my self-esteem grows. We are not talking about absolutes here. In some cultures if I stone to death my sister for dishonoring my family then my act is heroic.
Our self-esteem is derived from symbols. In the ape such matters were biologically cared for but we humans depend upon a symbolic constitution of worth. We are largely artificialized creatures dependant upon our society to provide each of us with a means for establishing our own self-esteem, without which we go crazy.
Self-preservation and a sense of power and satisfaction in activity are combined in symbolic wo/man to produce the heroic urge. Nietzsche and Emerson both considered heroism was “necessary and good, and that nothing less than the urge to heroism would do to typify the place of man in the animal kingdom…If you are a student of society, and want to understand why youth opts out of the system, find out why it fails to offer them the possibility of real heroism.”
Newsweek article “The Martyr Factory: Why One Libyan City Became a Pipeline for Suicide Bombers in Iraq” by Kevin Peraino. This is the story of a dead-end Libyan city of Darnah and the 52 young recruits who choose martyrdom in Iraq as one of the few means available for them to acquire self-esteem.
In Darnah there were few means provided for establishing self-esteem—martyrdom was one of them. Perhaps that might be why some Americans made the same choice when they enlisted.
Our whole life is a continual animation seeking an artificial symbol of self-worth. Often net-worth is our avenue for satisfying this craving for self-worth.
Is net-worth a valuable means for establishing self-worth?
What means, other than going to war, does the American society provide to young people to satisfy there need to be heroic? |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Actually coberst our self esteem is largely dependent on the environment we grow up in and how we are treated by those around us.
If parents criticise continually and fail to praise, then a child will have a low self esteem and grow up this way into an adult. As a result they may be constantly self reflecting, self criticising and never putting themselves forward for anything.
This and heroism are not connected.
Feeling heroic is likely to be a temporary feeling.
It is like being fat for 30 yrs then losing all the weight. Regardless of the new look, the person still feels 'fat' and sees themselves as a 'fat' person. It is very hard to shake years of conditioning and a single act may momentarily raise someones self esteem but it will not be lasting.
It takes longer than this to undo that kind of damage.
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I fail to see any connection between your both posts to the defenition of 'hero'...
A hero is a person who's willing to sacrifice his own life in order to save(or attempt to save)
the life of another man.
You are just throwing words around without even knowing their meanings!
Making people notice you is called 'standing out of the crowd' and having high
self confidence to do it.
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| coberst |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
I never defined heroism
I am just saying it and self esteem are unrelated except momentarily.
I have no problem understanding what heroism is.
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
Lets say I just killed the tribe leader of tribe A... now.. for my tribes` point of view (tribe B)
I'll be considered as their "hero" and from tribes` A point of view I'll
be considered as a hero of their rivals... the hero title doesn't go to waste
when heroic deeds are done... :/
p.s.
| Theoryofrelativity wrote: |
| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
I never defined heroism
. |
well I did and cobrest tottaly ingored me!
whereas a few days ago he opened a thread regarding of the dialogues` importancy! 
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Hanuka wrote: |
| well I did and cobrest tottaly ingored me! |
And your definition was much better than coberst's. |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
In short, a hero is someone who is percieved to be a hero. The definition is quite wide which is why it is dependent also on a context to be percieved.
Let me know if that made any sense, I have no idea  Perhaps I took it too far and should've stopped at the first sentence?
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"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
-- Albert Einstein
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| serpicojr wrote: |
| Hanuka wrote: |
| well I did and cobrest tottaly ingored me! |
And your definition was much better than coberst's. |
lolz, thanks 
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously wrote: |
| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
In short, a hero is someone who is percieved to be a hero. The definition is quite wide which is why it is dependent also on a context to be percieved.
Let me know if that made any sense, I have no idea Perhaps I took it too far and should've stopped at the first sentence? |
Aii... many tv shows adapt this VERY wrong approach to heroizm...
Take for an example people who survived a hurricane... or even better,
a mass slaughtering...
Now, stupid people tend to say that they are "heroes" (bah) but infact
most of those bastids just run away as fast as they could or just hided
their asses in safe place for after the danger went past them....
This is infact the very opposite of the real defenition of heroism.
Saving your own ass doesnt make you a hero.
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Science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing.. ROFL xD
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Hanuka wrote: |
Aii... many tv shows adapt this VERY wrong approach to heroizm...
Take for an example people who survived a hurricane... or even better,
a mass slaughtering...
Now, stupid people tend to say that they are "heroes" (bah) but infact
most of those bastids just run away as fast as they could or just hided
their asses in safe place for after the danger went past them....
This is infact the very opposite of the real defenition of heroism.
Saving your own ass doesnt make you a hero. |
So saving others at your own expense is heroism? Sounds good to me. Just as an extra notice, probably important to separate hero from idol as well.
_________________
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
-- Albert Einstein
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously wrote: |
| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
In short, a hero is someone who is percieved to be a hero. The definition is quite wide which is why it is dependent also on a context to be percieved.
Let me know if that made any sense, I have no idea Perhaps I took it too far and should've stopped at the first sentence? |
I don't recall asking for a definition, I am aware of what a hero is.
For those who are not, merely consider those in your own life who you consider to be hero's and no it's not all about risking self to save someone else as coberst said it is entirely subjective.
One of my hero's is a friend of mine who contributed significantly to saving my life. She is thus my hero. Others including herself would not see what she did as heroism, and I would agree that her act was not 'heroic' and yet I am left with the 'feeling' that she is my hero. It is a feeling of admiration and gratitude.
A feeling stemming from the fact that without her contribution, things may have turned out very differently. Her strength was in her character and her fearlessness was in the form of her persistance.
I am a 'hero' to friends of mine, who I have saved with 'advice'.
It's not the same as an idol, as there is not meaningless worship going on, it is an appreciation for someones significant contribution to your personal or group well being or advancement.
There are of course more notable and significant heros, ones who do save lives with more physical acts of daring. Those whose speeches and writings result in society changing for the better.
Some would see leading feminists as their hero's, others would see them as their nemesis. Many political leaders are hero's to some, enemies to others (as Coberst said a matter of perspective).
A hero is created simply when someone (including themself) believes them to be 'so' regardless of what others think. Whether they get credit and awards for heroism is of course dependent on how others see it.
Anything else - refer to the dictionary, meanwhile...
self esteem and heroism..not related except for the moment as stated previously
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'Time is the space between birth and death' by me. |
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| coberst |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hanuka
As I understand it a brother can stone his sister to death for dishonoring the family and be considered a hero in some cultures. Each culture sets up its own standards as to what is heroic. |
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| coberst |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Obviously wrote: |
| coberst wrote: |
Theoryofrelativity
What constitutes heroism is dependent upon what the culture determines to be good actions because the person seeks approval of the society. What is a good action in one society may well be a bad action in another culture. |
In short, a hero is someone who is percieved to be a hero. The definition is quite wide which is why it is dependent also on a context to be percieved.
Let me know if that made any sense, I have no idea Perhaps I took it too far and should've stopped at the first sentence? |
Each culture establishes what is good and what is evil. A hero does what the culture considers to be good. |
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="coberst"]
| Obviously wrote: |
| A hero does what the culture considers to be good. |
Not true
a hero may not even consider their actions before acting it could be something against their culture.
My culture permits the destroying of wasps, I once saved one by placing my hand over it as someone went to swat it. To the that wasp (if it had the ability to comprehend such things) I was it's hero. I saved it's life.
The would be swatter thought I was nuts. I felt like the wasps 'hero' and also that I was 'nuts'. My reaction was instinctive and certainly not one I'd repeat easily.
My cultures 'hero' certainly not, but a hero of sorts none the less.
Heroism is not just about cultural norms as I said already.
Note: This is a really crap example of my heroic nature 
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