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| Comming up with a new Gaming Console |
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| Hanuka |
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Comming up with a new Gaming Console |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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Leatly I've been asking myself different questions about gaming consules but couldn't find the answer
them because I dun really know how these things work so I hope that some
of you guys will know the answers.
I'd like to ask you guys how one can manege to release a new successful gaming console(like PS3, Xbox360, etc...)?
I know that one will need to come up with a new gaming engine and "twist" for the console
so it'll sell and won't be "just like XYZ console"...
These are the basic two the I've maneged to think so someone please tell me how
one makes it happen?
I mean.. you can't just hire people and tell them to go and "make me a new console"... you need to have ideas and guidelines for them... perhaps even a script
so they will develop it?
p.s. sorry for the messyness of the post but too many questions tend to run away
when they are bound to be put in writing 
Cheers,
tony
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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I suppose in introducing a new product into a new market you are going to have to do primary research to start to assess the pro's and con's of the gaming industry, which is HUGE. Then your biggest concern is to actually persuade game companies to produce games compatible with your console. You'll need to go through all stages of the scientific stages of analysis, look at marketing, finances, operations management, HR, external influences etc etc.
I believe your thread would be better suited in the business section than here, becasue the first stages of setting up a new console will be the business aspect of it.
Gamers nowadays very much like variety, a new way to play games, a new market, a new target audience. That is why the Nintendo has made a comeback with the Wii. They really thought about that one, they even mangaged to bring the female gender into gaming, and very widely too. Believe it or not. We've been playing games for over 25 years with a joypad. And it's boring, to say the least.
I believe that the only new kind of gaming experience you can introduce, will be Virtual reality. If you can create and market that, you will be the leader of the gaming industry. Period. You'd get Sony and Microsoft wanting the technology to play in Virtual reality and so charge them billions for it.
But of course Virtual reality is just a futurisitc example. Try and think of a new idea and very well implement it. Who will play it, why will they play it? How will it stop them from being bored? Will it last? Etc.
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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But if lets say one would create a Console that encorporates the body of the
use as whole through using mutiple detection sensors on variors body parts(mainly joins, hips and head) and with the use of flexible glove with sensors
to detect the finger movement... is that virtual reality enogh for ya? 
Anyways, for one to come up with such an ambitious plan one would defenetly
be needing not a small wealth to start and maintain the project.
What I want to discuss here is not the business aspects of the plan but rather the
thechnology...
So... one without computing education must rely on the work of his educated workers...
But they still need a plan...
1st of all I wanna know how one can come up with a new graphics engine??
As I said b4; you can't just tell them "go and build me a new graphics engine"...
so how one will do this?(graphics engine part only)
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| Inevidence |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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You'd need specifics as to the ability of this new graphics engine; after all, there's no need for anyone to reinvent the wheel. The Source engine wanted better physics, another came up with bloom substitutes, crytek's crysis went for visual realism etc- new would be a game console where you'd wear goggles like the ones at 3Dcinemas, 'cept reusable and in a decent quality color definition, preferably HD. Just... rambling here, but yeah; you'd need new goals to strive for.
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
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Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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Aye!
"Screen googles" would be an assential part of the whole console indeed! xD
But after a hour or so eyes would hurt like hell and there are also the heath hazards of them... :/
one can one make "screen googles" eye-friendly?
And as for the engine.... What part of the console does set the graphics potential?
Like wii has a crappy graphics potential and PS3 has a great one.. so what controlls
it?
And from what parts a console is built?(plz some 1 describe if possible)
Cheers
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| leohopkins |
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: Gaming |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Croydon, England
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Hi guys,
Ive read an article in the times not so long back you may be interested in reading....
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/gadgets_and_gaming/article4354041.ece
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www.leohopkins.com |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1263
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Business comment:
Inspiring from some success and then trying to beat it at it's own game is foolish. Especially when you're the little guy. The only time this works is when the established business can't meet demand, so you leech. If you're talking about location, sure there's room for many players, local business. But not with truly international products like game consoles.
Think of something really new, like unexpected. Revolutionary.
***
OK, hardware now.
Here's a new pointer control, that could be used with handheld devices, workstations, etc. The control typically directs an onscreen pointer AKA cursor so replaces our current mice, touchpads, etc. It consists of a pair of fingertip "bandages", one worn on middle or index finger, one worn on thumb. They are comparable to fabric band-aids, but adhere by light adhesive, velcro, or elastic. Woven through the fabric of each is a mesh of lightly charged wires. By contacting opposing fingers, the two meshes register position, via lightweight cords or data ribbon to a small wrist-strap USB wireless, then to the computer. If the mesh patterns are very slightly asymmetrical, incredibly fine movements can be read... i.e. the human limit of dexterity.
Take a moment to gently rub your middle finger to your thumb. Fine control, isn't it? Human dexterity is focused at the fingertips.
The user would be able to keyboard while wearing this device, as it encumbers no more than finger bandages. Transition time between keyboarding and pointer positioning is minimal. Clicks can be actuated by pressure or by a third finger bandage contacting either of the first two at various points. The device is patently ergonomic.
Speaking about patents. I checked. It's all clear. Yours if you want it.
BTW, a fingertip pointer device could be better yet if it simply measured and mapped potential difference between fingertips, like a polygraph. The irregularity of bare fingerprints alone would provide an asymmetrical pattern to register position. I think this would be more expensive to manufacture than conventional mice though, because the electronics must be highly sensitive and it requires a decent onboard processor. |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Gaming |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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A very interesting article indeed and I think that this new innovation(just 2 days old
from announcement) deserves a whole thread for itself and I'd aprriciate if some 1
will open it; I'll defenetly join in the discussion
~~
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| Pong wrote: |
Business comment:
Inspiring from some success and then trying to beat it at it's own game is foolish. Especially when you're the little guy. The only time this works is when the established business can't meet demand, so you leech. If you're talking about location, sure there's room for many players, local business. But not with truly international products like game consoles.
Think of something really new, like unexpected. Revolutionary.
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If this is not an innovative idea enough and won't crush ALL the current gaming
consules that we currently have these days I dunno what will...
*note* To leohopkinss' and pongs' posts: Nintendo are the most selfish SOBs
that I know from all the major companies, they like to squeeze every little
drop of their "innovations" and only then move to something that is slightly
advanced then before... I mean... c'mon.. they still trying to make money from
Mario for Christ's sake! And for Wii they dont want to improve its graphics for
various mild financial reason... I'tll be so easy to crush them with an invetion
like this. and the other "big fishes" int he market to follow.
| Pong wrote: |
OK, hardware now.
Here's a new pointer control, that could be used with handheld devices, workstations, etc. The control typically directs an onscreen pointer AKA cursor so replaces our current mice, touchpads, etc. It consists of a pair of fingertip "bandages", one worn on middle or index finger, one worn on thumb. They are comparable to fabric band-aids, but adhere by light adhesive, velcro, or elastic. Woven through the fabric of each is a mesh of lightly charged wires. By contacting opposing fingers, the two meshes register position, via lightweight cords or data ribbon to a small wrist-strap USB wireless, then to the computer. If the mesh patterns are very slightly asymmetrical, incredibly fine movements can be read... i.e. the human limit of dexterity.
Take a moment to gently rub your middle finger to your thumb. Fine control, isn't it? Human dexterity is focused at the fingertips.
The user would be able to keyboard while wearing this device, as it encumbers no more than finger bandages. Transition time between keyboarding and pointer positioning is minimal. Clicks can be actuated by pressure or by a third finger bandage contacting either of the first two at various points. The device is patently ergonomic.
Speaking about patents. I checked. It's all clear. Yours if you want it.
BTW, a fingertip pointer device could be better yet if it simply measured and mapped potential difference between fingertips, like a polygraph. The irregularity of bare fingerprints alone would provide an asymmetrical pattern to register position. I think this would be more expensive to manufacture than conventional mice though, because the electronics must be highly sensitive and it requires a decent onboard processor. |
You got me puzzeled there a bit...
You say bandages that dress on your fingertips and detect motion?
Well thats pretty much pike teh glove thingy that I was talking about.. I was thinking about something more simper:
There be a glove, with motion sesonrs that detect finger move and
wrist detectors to detect the hand positioning... pretty much the same
and I think the gamers would like much more a sturdy glove than a fragile finger bandages... although both are fine i think....
Also there should be at least 3 detection posts to detect the wrist/angle/hips/whatever detectors, should be one at each side and one in front... maybe even
also 1 in the back...
I dunno which technology can be used to detect the limb detectors tho..
InfraRed seems to be too clumsy and rubbish... perhaps you guys
know some sturdy technologies that can detect the slightest shifts of the detectors
on air? (must be wireless offcourse or the user will just stumble on the wires and
brake his head on the table..  )
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| Inevidence |
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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actually, that all depends on design. If you make something look completely comfortable and still make it look supermegawesomecool so to speak, fingertip bandages or clips could work just as well. especially since most data if not all can be transferred through the air, there won't be a wirehassle to deal with, either.
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Gaming |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1263
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Input direct from the brain is of course ideal. I was thinking this technology/business path sensible: fingertip bandage sensor, then fingerprint contact (like an electroencephalograph for the fingers), then finally nerve reading with same technology through the scalp. You see how one product flows to the next. A company might develop products & market acceptance step by step this way, without a asking investors to take one massive leap of faith.
| Hanuka wrote: |
You say bandages that dress on your fingertips and detect motion?
Well thats pretty much pike teh glove thingy that I was talking about.. I was thinking about something more simper:
There be a glove, with motion sesonrs that detect finger move and
wrist detectors to detect the hand positioning.. |
Well see your glove and suit is 1:1 - what you do in life translates proportionately to what happens in the game or spreadsheet or whatever. Swing your hips to make the virtual soldier dance, or scroll the spreadsheet. That's funny and it will never be more than a gimmick. Controls that really prove useful allow more input with less exertion. Quicker input, cleaner input. The keyboard for example: push a single button to "write" one complete character. No we don't want pen tablets or motion sensing gloves to enter text. That's going the wrong way. Serious users will always choose the most efficient (lazy) controls.
Let's duel online, multiplayer. You wear a sensor suit to control your fighter with large muscle movements, while I control my fighter with fast & accurate twitches of the fingertips. Who is going to win? |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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Yah, but virtual reality calls for incorporating the WHOLE body into the game.
People are lazy(gaming wize) these days just because the don't have the option
to play good games that require much moving(these dancing pads and Wii
shit are just rubbish)...
Ultimately Sony, Nintendo and all these gaming companys MADE our gaming lives
the way they are.
If some one will come up with a TRUE virtual reality that every movement that you
make is incorporated into the screen(not like Wii where when you move your hand it
scrolls the screen or something like this; I'm talking that each limb will do in the game what it's
meant to do in real life).
When it comes to play multiplayer, joystick controllers wont be able to work
with such a machine because they can't make all the complex moves that our
body can, therfore they wont be able to play the game at all with a "quick movement" joystick.
Think about it; You wear your screen googles, put on your limb sensors on
your feet, wrists, head, hips, ankles and elbows; wear your sensor gloves or
fingertip bandages and you enter the game.
In the game every slight move that you make in real life is translated into the game.
You can take a game-costum rifle in real life(with reloading mechanism and
fire detectors) and play the game like you its real life.
All this can be done in these days if one would be willing to take the action;
no need for futuristing "mind reading" devices; just a simple detectors and a good
console to translate it and you gave your gold mine right there.
One thing that I cant figure out yet is the feet movement part... I mean, you obviously cant run about the house bumping nto shyt... and running at the place
is such a spoil for this marvelous console... any ideas?
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| Pong |
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Virtual reality via whole-body input is a half baked ideal IMO. It's got geek-appeal coming out the yinyang and plenty of executives are sold on it, but finally, people just won't like it much or find it useful.
Look at videoconferencing. We were told "this is how business will be done". So decision makers invested tons of money to make operating systems and hardware perfectly capable of videoconferencing. The telcos and cable providers ran ads hyping this revolutionary means of communicating. Oooh interact live on screen... tech orgasm. Ten years later, who uses it? You try that in the office, boss says "get back to work". My old video card featured "Gameface" too - so I could seamlessly integrate into my Warcraft screen the dimly-lit pimples of some kid pwning me. Nobody used it.
3D glasses are available that work with PC games - they're guaranteed to make you feel immersed in the 3D world - nobody buys them. Why aren't all movies 3D since the technology's been available as long as colour film?
Sometimes what we think we want, isn't so great after all.
You can solve the virtual reality foot motion problem like so: Take a sphere, somewhat larger than the feet, which is wireless and able to be rolled around by the feet. Take it to the park and kick it.
We're really closer to brain control of prosthetics or virtual bodies than most people are aware. We're doing it now with relatively cheap and old technology. What held the technology back so long was our presumption it couldn't be so straight forward, because "the brain is unimaginably complex". Surely virtual reality will mature with direct readings from the brain.
I've actually played a 2-player "brainwave" game. Against a 4-year-old, who pwned me.  |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2008
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Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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| Pong wrote: |
Virtual reality via whole-body input is a half baked ideal IMO. It's got geek-appeal coming out the yinyang and plenty of executives are sold on it, but finally, people just won't like it much or find it useful.
Look at videoconferencing. We were told "this is how business will be done". So decision makers invested tons of money to make operating systems and hardware perfectly capable of videoconferencing. The telcos and cable providers ran ads hyping this revolutionary means of communicating. Oooh interact live on screen... tech orgasm. Ten years later, who uses it? You try that in the office, boss says "get back to work". My old video card featured "Gameface" too - so I could seamlessly integrate into my Warcraft screen the dimly-lit pimples of some kid pwning me. Nobody used it.
3D glasses are available that work with PC games - they're guaranteed to make you feel immersed in the 3D world - nobody buys them. Why aren't all movies 3D since the technology's been available as long as colour film?
Sometimes what we think we want, isn't so great after all.
You can solve the virtual reality foot motion problem like so: Take a sphere, somewhat larger than the feet, which is wireless and able to be rolled around by the feet. Take it to the park and kick it.
We're really closer to brain control of prosthetics or virtual bodies than most people are aware. We're doing it now with relatively cheap and old technology. What held the technology back so long was our presumption it couldn't be so straight forward, because "the brain is unimaginably complex". Surely virtual reality will mature with direct readings from the brain.
I've actually played a 2-player "brainwave" game. Against a 4-year-old, who pwned me. |
lolz
But no matter what you think about it; such a device will sell really well if one will do it right.
Why do you need to wait and take all what this "video conferences" tell ya anyways?
Do they know what everyone wants? Do they control the business?
Offcourse not!
The only reason that anyone takes them so seriously because they are the most known
one around (I assume that you are talking about E3...).
So if one would rise and decide to make things better one and will have the resourses
and the technology to back it up offcourse he will crash the existing bullshit that's
going around the gaming world... look at Nintendo for example, those money craving
sob dont even care about their costumers, they only care about their money and
constantly release little addons to their bullshit consoles so their consoles will still sell. Bah! 
And I saw once those 3D glasses that you speak of... what the hell does this crap has
to do with the "screen googles"(i.e. googles that have screens in them(eye friendly offcourse)
that I have in mind?
Anyhowz, back to technology...
I was thinking about these limb detectors from before and came to the conclussion
that no one would want to restock 5+ detectors with battaries of any kind... soo...
Pong, does these bandages that you mentioned before have a power source or they just reflect light?
Can you please simplify the concept of these bandages because I usually get lost
really quickly once technical terms without explanation start to fly abut
And if possible can ya post a link that explains them more broadly?
Cheers!
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| Pong |
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hanuka wrote: |
| no matter what you think about it; such a device will sell really well if one will do it right. |
Man you're determined to do the classic VR suit, which for some silly reason nobody will market. Classic? Yes oldschool. A few of my friends... oh twelve or fifteen years ago, had a grant and this little shop for tinkering with those gloves and helmets. Nothing came of it. But hey maybe Hanuka can dust off this old idea and do it right.
You really want to stick it to Nintendo. Consumer resentment is no basis for a business plan.
| Hanuka wrote: |
| simplify the concept of these bandage |
The invention has nothing to do with virtual reality - it is basically a new kind of mouse. It only works where two parts of the body brush together, like thumb and finger. So it gives x,y position and is well suited to controlling a pointer, e.g. that thing on the screen you currently move by sliding a mouse around with your arm. It could replace mice, tablets, and touchpads, I believe, because fingertip bandages allow better accuracy, speed, and comfort.
The invention might be a nice accessory for game consoles though because so many games do/should/could require a mouse, yet conventional mice demand a desktop and a pad to park on. The lack of real pointer control is limiting game consoles. Why not design a console that can play any style of game, and more? |
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| Hanuka |
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 582
Location: The 10th Kingdom xD
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Well then the bandeges can't be working properly with that kind of an idea; as
it requires to detect movements to all directions other than in 2d(lift, right, ip and down; not backwards and farwards... the 2d art that is  )
So anyways, I already ask for a few posts here for some 1 to name a technology that can detect detectors airborn and with precicment and I'm yet re recive an answer.
p.s. Pong i've asked you not to talk about the business side because it's really irrelevant
and I can't say that I give a damn about it so I'd appriciate if this topic will stay what
it is - which is talking about gaming technologies. thanks 
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