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| xenobiology |
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Atlas experiment....the beams |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
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Hi, i have a question regarding on the Atlas experiment.
1. I am curious about the beams they use to fire up the particles near to the speed of light, how is it possible to built such a high energy beam where nothing is possible to reach the speed of light?
2. What is the exact amount of particles they will be firing? and since the particles are so tiny, where and how do they extract/get the particles from? |
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| Old Fool |
| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 67
Location: England
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The particles in the accelerator will not reach the speed of light, but they should get close to it.
The particles in the beam are simply protons. I don't know what the actual source is in this experiment but protons are not difficult to generate. Simply irradiating hydrogen with electrons will cause it to become ionized and an ionized hydrogen atom is a proton. Irradiating hydrogen with an intense ultraviolet laser beam could also generate protons. |
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| BumFluff |
| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Canada
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A laser is just protons captured by a ray of light. I'm pretty sure, though I haven't looked into it, that it's much the same type of thing.
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 178
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| BumFluff wrote: |
| A laser is just protons captured by a ray of light. I'm pretty sure, though I haven't looked into it, that it's much the same type of thing. |
Where the heck did you get THIS idea from????
A laser is Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation i.e a coherent narrowband beam of light
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| SteveF |
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 28 May 2007
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Location: NC USA
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The high velocities are achieved by constantly accelerating the protons as they circle round and round. A magnetic field does the trick.
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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They might also do this with the LHC, but often separate comparatively small circular accelerators called cyclotrons are used to bring the particles up to speed. They then use an ionizer to force the particles to follow a powerful magnetic diversion field which then injects the particles into the main chamber.
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"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"
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| Ruro |
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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Sorry, curiosity has gotten the best of me:
If you were standing in the Tunnel when they initiated these tests, would you be polverised very quickly by tiny Protons? Given one trip around the tunnel is microseconds (I believe), you wouldn't be standing long right? Unless you would act as a conductor in regards to something equipment related, and die instantly from something else?
You know, good to ask these questions. Just in case I ever find myself in the Tunnel, maybe fall lost on a Tour of the Establishment whilst visiting >_> One can't be over prepared for these... Life threatening instances, Oh No. Certainly not  |
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 742
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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They do have proton therapy that they use to kill cancer cells. I would think that the effects would be similar to that except you would be destroying good cells, and likely disrupting their DNA, making them cancerous. I guess the immediate effects would be like the consequence of sitting on the beach for 10 hours without sun screen happening in 10 seconds.
_________________
Forget all that you know, achievements can only be accomplished by starting from nothing and selectively applying facts that are purely objective and absolutely necessary.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"
-Einstein
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
Use your computing strength for science! |
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1052
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| SteveF wrote: |
The high velocities are achieved by constantly accelerating the protons as they circle round and round. A magnetic field does the trick.
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The protons are going to be constantly colliding with the wall of the chamber. Creating heat and radio. It is senseless. The protons wish to travel in a straight path. You could easily accelerate a proton to super speeds in a straight line cheaply and effectively.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
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| Old Fool wrote: |
The particles in the accelerator will not reach the speed of light, but they should get close to it.
The particles in the beam are simply protons. I don't know what the actual source is in this experiment but protons are not difficult to generate. Simply irradiating hydrogen with electrons will cause it to become ionized and an ionized hydrogen atom is a proton. Irradiating hydrogen with an intense ultraviolet laser beam could also generate protons. |
A proton could not be part of a beam. You can hurl a proton. You could spray protons. However protons are not rays. Protons are atoms.
This is a misconception stemming from the illusive electron. When they saw super repulsion they thought they had a bigger particle then a tiny electron. They just did not understand that you cannot destroy an electron, so its repulsive force is infinite.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| Zitterbewegung |
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 178
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| Ruro wrote: |
Sorry, curiosity has gotten the best of me:
If you were standing in the Tunnel when they initiated these tests, would you be polverised very quickly by tiny Protons? Given one trip around the tunnel is microseconds (I believe), you wouldn't be standing long right? Unless you would act as a conductor in regards to something equipment related, and die instantly from something else?
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Just standing next to the tunnel without sufficient shielding will result in bodily harm. When charged particles are accelerated i.e. forced into a curve rather than going straight they emit EM-radiation. And most of this EM radiation will come as X-rays, a welcomed byproduct of all cyclotrons. And in the tube itself (given you survive the ultra high vacuum) the energy of the particles is high enough to kill you. A single particle only has the energy of a fly hitting you but you have to multiply this with 10^20. As stated in another thread, the LHC has the capability to destroy itself during operation when the packets of protons hit the tube wall.
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