| Author |
Message
|
| Alc |
 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: A Paradox |
 |
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
|
Ok i have a paradox for you to solve, including both worm holes and time travel, what i want you to do is tell me what would happen in this case. 
Click on the image to view it at its original size
Ok, my paint skills are worse than dire, but the 2 spyrograph lookalikes are worm holes, the ball itself is stationary to begin with, Worm hole 2 is set exactly 8 seconds in the past, relative to worm hole 1.
So my task for you is to decide what will happen if the ball moves into wormhole one (follows the upper white arrow) at 100m s-1 and it leaves worm hole 2 with its speed intact due to the conservation of energy, The ball from the future will collide with the ball from the past. Explain what you think will happen. [/img] |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3207
Location: Somewhere, nowhere.
|
The ball being projected to the past wormhole will be exiled to another universe and won't appear again. Or the paradox would cause a black hole in the spacetime continuum. 
Or in a paradox free explanation, as soon as you start the experiment for the first time, a black ball will come from no-where and hit your ball before you are about to send it in. But the momentum knocks the ball in. There, a tidy time loop  .
_________________
"Laugh at life or it will laugh at you". - SVRDW. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Alc |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
|
haha perfect, no matter what happens, the ball must enter the worm hole, an infinite number of possibilities could occur  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Janus |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Re: A Paradox |
|
|
Forum Junior
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 231
|
| Alc wrote: |
Ok i have a paradox for you to solve, including both worm holes and time travel, what i want you to do is tell me what would happen in this case.
Click on the image to view it at its original size
Ok, my paint skills are worse than dire, but the 2 spyrograph lookalikes are worm holes, the ball itself is stationary to begin with, Worm hole 2 is set exactly 8 seconds in the past, relative to worm hole 1.
So my task for you is to decide what will happen if the ball moves into wormhole one (follows the upper white arrow) at 100m s-1 and it leaves worm hole 2 with its speed intact due to the conservation of energy, The ball from the future will collide with the ball from the past. Explain what you think will happen. [/img] |
Okay, assuming that wormholes exist:
1. Despite the representation of them you see in science fiction, wormholes would not appear as "portals" that you can only enter into and leave from by one direction. They would three dimensional regions from which you could enter or exit in any direction.
2. That being said, while you assumed that energy was conserved, you violated conservation of momentum by having the ball traveling in different direction when it leaves one white hole than it had when it entered the other. Taking into consideration what I said in point one, the ball would leave the second wormhole traveling in the same direction as it entered the first, and the balls would never collide.
3. It is very possible that wormholes that allow travel back in time would have to be separated by a distance greater than that which light could travel in the time difference between them. For instance, your two wormholes would have to be at least 8 light sec apart. Thus an object exiting one wormhole in the "past" won't be able to return to the wormhole it entered until after it has entered. (No paradox allowed).
4. This all depends on the existence of stable wormhole. Some studies have shown that this would require "exotic matter", such as matter with negative mass. The existence of such exotic matter opens a whole new can of worms on its own.
It is very possible that stable wormholes may remain purely a province of science fiction.
_________________
"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone
Edit/Delete Message |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Alc |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
|
you are perhaps forgetting, that my representation of a wormhole is just a picture, it isnt implied they are real or that they look like that, This is entirely theoretical, it is purely a fictional topic just to see what people would come up with....
but to one of your points, you mentioned that the energy isnt conserved because the ball is travelling in two different directions. yes this would be true in a 3 dimensional universe, but we are talking time travel, time being the 4th dimension itself... now if it were at all possible, im pretty sure something as vague as physical direction in a standard time frame wouldnt effect this.
im not sure where you get the 8 secs apart thing from.... but once again, just fiction
Last edited by Alc on Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3207
Location: Somewhere, nowhere.
|
Don't pay much attention to Janus, he lives in his very literal world. Which is all well and good, and very useful at times. But it takes the fun out of it doesn't it? The mystery.
_________________
"Laugh at life or it will laugh at you". - SVRDW. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Janus |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Junior
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 231
|
| Alc wrote: |
you are perhaps forgetting, that my representation of a wormhole is just a picture, it isnt implied they are real or that they look like that, This is entirely theoretical, it is purely a fictional topic just to see what people would come up with....
but to one of your points, you mentioned that the energy isnt conserved because the ball is travelling in two different directions. yes this would be true in a 3 dimensional universe, but we are talking time travel, time being the 4th dimension itself... now if it were at all possible, im pretty sure something as vague as physical direction in a standard time frame wouldnt effect this.
|
I said that momentum wouldn't be conserved. And I see no reason that momentum shouldn't be conserved.
| Quote: |
im not sure where you get the 8 secs apart thing from.... but once again, just fiction |
The 8 light sec separation disallows the paradox, and quite frankly, I tend to lean to the idea that reality is designed as to disallow paradoxes.
As to being fiction: Sure, if you allow yourself to set up impossible situations, you can contrive a paradox, but to what purpose? You won't learn anything from it.
The only use for a paradox I can see is that if you find one, you know you've done something wrong.
_________________
"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone
Edit/Delete Message |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Pong |
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1263
|
Given that Wile E. Coyote is real,
and he may temporarily suspend the law of gravity,
still I think the coyote must fall when he looks down.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
